The first weekend of the WNBA season brought us plenty to talk about, for better or worse. The Liberty still look like champs, the Mystics are fun and a note on what’s to come this season.
I’m glad they are investigating. I tend to think that, if this actually happened, we’d have video that isn’t obviously FlightReacts superimposed over Dave Portnoy shouting on the sidelines looking ridiculous. But better safe than sorry.
I’m more concerned about how the WNBA is going to use the results to make productive changes. Whether they find something or not, one side will insist that every allegation going forward should carry a presumption of the same outcome. The WNBA has to draw lessons from the investigation and use those to hone their process - and be transparent about it.
If something did happened, they need to ban the people who did it and advertise how to report people near you in real time. If they find this was an online-created rumor, they need to announce that they will not investigate allegations from people who aren’t verified to be in the stadium.
I don’t have a problem with Fever or Clark fans but with a subset of fans who think that Clark needs protection because she is a pretty pretty yt princess.
I also don’t think that Reese is an evil woman out to destroy Clark. They are gown ups (almost( and rivals and clearly excellent players..
It is impossible to ignore the racialized aspects around their rivalry and doing so will lead us (as a fan community) down an even worse path.
When analyzing all of this information, I feel that it is important to remember that one of the founding principles of this country is "innocent until proven guilty," at least until recently. However, when it comes to Fever fans, it seems like it is "guilty until proven innocent."
There is one word that should rule this discussion: EVIDENCE. With the proliferation of camera phones, why has there not been one shred of evidence showing this bad behavior, especially considering that these accusations began last year?
I'm a big Fever fan and a big Caitlin Clark fan, and this is what I believe. If there is evidence that any fan engaged in this reprehensible behavior, said fan should be banned from all WNBA arenas for life. If there is evidence that the Fever organization knew about this behavior and did nothing, the team should be fined or have a draft pick taken away.
On the other hand, if no credible evidence is found, will the league office issue a statement saying so? And if they do, will it make any difference? It's often said that it's hard to un-ring a bell. Even if the league office issues a statement absolving the Fever and their fans, VERY few people will remember it. The majority of people will only remember the accusation.
I really appreciate your commentary on Caitlin/Angel and think it was really thoughtful.
That being said, I don't really get the narrative that Caitlin shouldn't have walked away. Walking away from a situation is a pretty well understood way to de-escalate, no? By the same logic, do you think that Angel shouldn't have walked away after she fragrantly fouled Caitlin by hitting her in the head last year? Are you saying you think it's better to stick around and taunt someone after you fouled them? I genuinely don't get it.
She did the foul and ran away and was acting like it was just a regular take foul. She later admitted it was retaliation for the Howard foul right before. She threw in a push and was acting surprised Reese was mad.
In what way? People accept that AT is going to enforce and then walk away and act like nothing happened. Same thing with Plum - she’s going to grab and pull you, then act like she did nothing when you hit the floor. I wouldn’t call either of them dirty players and that’s not their reputation.
I think culturally, to me (metro NY), committing a hard foul and turning your back feels disrespectful to the game. Like if you’re gonna foul someone and even if they react, you still face em like “yeah, it’s ball”. Caitlin I think has a bit of a habit dating back to college of playing aggressively (which I love) but trying to jockey refs by acting innocent (which I hate). It’s not unique to her, mind you. It’s all over the men’s game. And I dislike when players do it there too.
I took the walk away as a smart move on Clark’s part as I’m sure that the coaching staff has emphasized the need to avoid technical fouls with 43 games to go.
I appreciate hearing your thoughts, thanks for the comment! I'm from the upper midwest so I think there are some genuine cultural differences there. The SDSU Jackrabbits women's team is basically how we played in terms of attitude, haha. Not a whole lot going on.
I also did not expect the Mystics to have such a strong debut to the season. I have voiced many criticisms (from the privacy of my living room) of Sydney Johnson. I need to see more before I’m ready to rescind my statements but the rooks and the vets looked great this weekend.
Your tick tock on the racism allegations stemming from that game strike me as disingenuous. I learned about the alleged “monkey noises” lobbed at Angel Reese by Fever fans after she was fouled by Caitlin Clark from No Cap Space. In Tyler and Greer’s YouTube video podcast about the Fever-Sun game, Tyler led things off with the allegations. He was scrolling his phone at the start of the video and seemed to be reading from tweets and texts.
No Cap Space markets itself as sports journalism. Journalists do not repeat unfounded allegations. I stopped watching the video after Tyler’s rather shocking (to me, anyway) unprofessionalism, so I don’t know if Tyler walked back his allegations at any point.
I have not seen a correction from No Cap Space for its role in spreading the “monkey noises” allegations, and I am surprised that this column does not contain a correction.
I’m also surprised that you wrote, “I’m not going to comment on the allegations about what was or wasn’t said in Indiana over the weekend. The videos circulating around don’t seem to give any real clarity and I haven’t been able to find any extensive first person accounts about any racism that happened in the arena that day.”
Anyone who is interested in how this bad faith claim caught fire can easily find breakdowns of it online. To the surprise of no one who has witnessed MAGA Twitter accounts hijack mainstream politics, the “monkey noise” allegations originated from a Twitter account that has since taken down the original tweet with the “monkey noise” allegation and gone private.
I have long relied on No Cap Space, Quita Loves Sports, and Rachel DeMita to follow news about the WNBA. (Also Annie Costabile – obvi -- before she moved to Frontline Sports). It is, quite frankly, very hard to find knowledgeable commentators who don’t also function as extensions of the WNBA’s PR operations.
The only reason I am still subscribed to No Cap Space today is because I cannot bear to go without Chauny’s takes on … everything.
I really thought No Cap Space was better than this.
Happy to address this now. I did not want to comment on the video in the column because we are a team. I wasn't on the postgame and they aren't on the column so it did not feel right to throw my own team under the bus to individuals that may be reading the column but didn't see the video.
We will be discussing it further on Ball Up Top this week and it's been handled internally. Effectively, it was a learning experience for everyone and while I don't think Tyler made any actual reporting mistake (he did take care to report that what he was seeing was unconfirmed), we should have been more careful as a team vetting the rumors before taking them to air. As Editor-in-Chief of the publication, that is on me and I take the accountability for that.
Thanks for your response. I know that Tyler was careful to say that what he was repeating was unconfirmed. But those statements were sandwiched between a lot of outrage from him about how the WNBA's "no hate" campaign was a failure and conflating the allegations about "monkey noises" with the odious Dave Portnoy's presence at the game. I know you and your team are operating in a very tough environment. As a former journalist with battle scars from reporting (and breaking news) on Boston's clergy sex abuse nightmare and marriage equality in Massachusetts, I'd encourage No Cap Space to adhere as closely as possible to confirming things (about the game as well as the politics of the game) on its own and only reporting/repeating what has already been confirmed. I wish you well in this venture and I hope you succeed.
I'm with you, Susan -- I stopped watching the post game video because of where Tyler started the conversation.
I am glad it'll be discussed on the next podcast because it was really off putting (and no specific stones at Tyler, whose enthusiasm and takes I usually enjoy). I really don't mind people commenting on the Clark-Reese exchange itself (but after the actual basketball talk), but starting with that was not it. I respect No Cap endeavoring to be different from the W media echo chamber/Twitter discourse, but that means you all need to put your phones down sometimes. Or show your work with real reporting.
Saskia, I agree with you about Tyler. (I'm a fan, really, of the whole No Cap Space team.) FWIW, I also do not mind the talk about Clark-Reese -- I don't know how anyone could talk about the game and *not* also talk about the foul. Sort of tangent: I can't help but think about how/whether the Fever will be able to keep this noise out of the locker room because unlike last year when it was all about Clark, now it has extended to other players and it is all so personal. One of the most egregious flagrant fouls of a rookie that took place last season was when Alyssa Thomas basically assaulted Angel Reese by the neck. I might be misremembering this, but I think Alyssa was ejected from the game because the foul was so bad. Reese was so shaken she took a long time to get up. She had no complaints about it after the game -- she said something like she considered the flagrant her welcome to the game. Much different from her response on Saturday, which was to get up and go after Clark. (Though I thought she handled the question after the game perfectly.) AT was also one of the players last year who accused Fever fans of being racist. DB's amazing achievement in Saturday's game is now being overshadowed by this BS monkey sounds allegation (which the WNBA actually issued a statement about). The racist fans in the arena thing simply isn't true. Then we've got Portnoy's presence at the game being connected with Sophie Cunningham. How in holy hell do they block all of this out? It is like a soap opera. I hope this comment does not come off as an unhinged rant. I just find it all to be completely bonkers. This crap does not seem to exist in any other sport. (To be fair, I only follow the WNBA and NFL. I try to follow NWSL but there is only so much time...) (Editing to add how every Black Fever player is being spammed online with the most vile, racist sh*t, which also happened last year but seems to have escalated this year.)
I trust in the Fever organization and those players -- including lots of veterans. This kind of noise can be very galvanizing.
I will say, to Andrew's point, is that "[t]he racist fans in the arena thing simply isn't true" isn't really a knowable thing. Do I think racist fans are representative of the overall CC/Fever fan base? Absolutely not. But do I think there were some racist Fever fans that might have said some nasty stuff in that arena on Saturday? I could see it because....people. Because....America in 2025. But whether any of that was heard by players/staff/officials/area staff and/or can be proven such that action can be taken? We'll see. The only specific allegation I've heard about is the monkey sounds thing that appears to have been debunked. Beyond that...they might as well look into things. I also think it doesn't hurt to send a message early before things get out of hand -- make people think twice before acting out in an arena.
I've actually witnessed racist comments at a sporting event years ago -- I was at a baseball game, in very, very nice seats. Two drunk white men sitting behind us made vile comments about an Asian player, and I stood up (I was extremely, very visibly pregnant), and told them to shut the fuck up or I would report them. They didn't say another word. I hope, like Andrew said, that other Fever fans would shut any nonsense down. I don't mind booing an opponent or supporting your team with passion, but there's a line.
Maybe Caitlin Clark walked away from the post-foul kerfuffle because she doesn’t trust herself enough to not re-engage in the conflict. She’s still testing the boundaries of the game and herself.
She is still learning just like Angel is. We have to give both of them grace. But any time women do anything remotely unlikeable...
Caitlin fouled her hard and thought she was doing a take foul, but she did extend her arm. She was wrapped up in the moment, and trying to live up to her promise and not get a technical, walked away. Angel was hit hard and got pissed. Who wouldn't! Refs actually called it correctly. None of what happened on the court or who these ladies actually are is driving any of this discourse. The drivers of the discourse could care less about who they are as people.
As a well balanced, not hateful fan I call out hate when I see it, period. It’s rampant with people who claim to be fans of Clark and Reese. I have been following Clark for years and it’s sad to see so many people that don’t actually care about basketball use her for hate speech or use hate speech against her. If someone did something hurtful in the Gainbridge field house, they should be dealt with. Period. All this discourse takes away from how good the Fever played and that’s ridiculous
Is Barstool banned from the NFL as a media member and also Portnoy as a fan? Was he at the Fever game as media or did he simply buy a ticket? (I honestly have no idea.)
I think the W/teams should be able to ban him if they want to (and he probably deserves it for just being an odious and influential person), but pulling credential versus an arena ban are a little different. And there's a bit of a Streisand Effect to any sort of ban. Also, the NFL and W are different leagues with different levels of cultural power.
Again, I don't want any full grown man in a full uniform of my favorite player showing up to games (because....ewww). But I'm curious about what the actual precedent is here.
God help the WNBA if the Tweeter in Chief decides to insert himself. The WNBA front office should have investigated as promptly as possible then say what they did to investigate and what they found. Not give the perception of legitimacy to what? An online rumor, an anti-Fever troll, or someone who actually witnessed a fan harassing a Sky player? We don’t know.
Making an announcement when they did was malpractice and deeply unfair to a fan base that has been ridiculed since the 2024 draft for the sin of loving CC.
So my understanding is it’s a blanket ban. It does have the potential to be a Streisand effect but he also is clearly showing up in bad faith so I don’t know how else to effectively combat it. If he was there every game like Sudeikis is, that’s one thing. But popping out just for this one vs Chicago? That’s an agitator in my eyes, at least.
Is "showing up in bad faith" enough? Does that rise to the level of being forcibly removed from NFL headquarters? I could see the argument that it does, but where do you draw the line beyond Portnoy? How odious/public/influential does a person have to be to be potentially banned moving forward? Does banning him deter anyone else or would they simply see it as a way to obtain a "badge of honor" and grift off it?
I hate using the term "slippery slope," but these are the kinds of questions the W/Fever will have to ask before taking action.
And I think that’s where the NFL precedent is helpful. Because he kinda got banned for just being an asshole to Goodell. He can do it as a badge of honor but I think the league stands to gain more in the long term telling dudes like him or the Outkick people they aren’t welcome here if they’re just coming to stir shit up.
So as a lawyer, I see the precedent differently, as well as the relative cultural power of the leagues. And with the W trying to actively grow/see a payoff for its investment, I would be surprised if they took a stand against Portnoy.
Ban them both as media? I could see it. A full arena ban? That's a tougher one.
Ok - just excellent all around! Thx for talking about the games and talent first - whew! What a great end of games! And so well said re the discourse. High praise for a great statement piece from my perspective!
Well said on the last point! I don’t like that the onus seems to always fall on Caitlin to “control her fans,” I think you have the more correct and realistic take - that the fans themselves should hold other fans accountable. It’s always bothered me that Caitlin, who hasn’t actually done anything wrong, is villainized in these situations when we could be holding the Dave Portnoys of the world accountable. You know, the people who have actually behaved badly.
The criticism of Caitlin and her circle is that they engage the Portnoys of the world. CC wants it both ways just like with the foul of Angel. She engages with ppl that can benefit her but plays dumb when their toxic behavior is out.
Surprise, a Caitlin stan makes excuses. Did I say she should? Reading comprehension on your part needs to be better. Point is, the organization on down keeps humoring this guy including Caitlin herself, who like I mentioned follows him on socials.
Surprise, another CC hater. If what Sophie Cunningham did isn't Clark's responsibility, why did you even bring her up?
I, as I am sure that you do, follow plenty of people on social media. Does that mean I approve of everything they have said or done? Most certainly not.
Just out of curiosity, have you seen any evidence that CC has engaged with this Dave Portnoy in person or on social media?
Judging by Caitlin’s brother being an open Pro-Palestine leftist, I think it’s safe to say that she and Sophie are different people with very different political views.
While it is disappointing she follows him, I took a look and it doesn’t look like she’s engaged with him ever, at least on Instagram.
I’m glad they are investigating. I tend to think that, if this actually happened, we’d have video that isn’t obviously FlightReacts superimposed over Dave Portnoy shouting on the sidelines looking ridiculous. But better safe than sorry.
I’m more concerned about how the WNBA is going to use the results to make productive changes. Whether they find something or not, one side will insist that every allegation going forward should carry a presumption of the same outcome. The WNBA has to draw lessons from the investigation and use those to hone their process - and be transparent about it.
If something did happened, they need to ban the people who did it and advertise how to report people near you in real time. If they find this was an online-created rumor, they need to announce that they will not investigate allegations from people who aren’t verified to be in the stadium.
I don’t have a problem with Fever or Clark fans but with a subset of fans who think that Clark needs protection because she is a pretty pretty yt princess.
I also don’t think that Reese is an evil woman out to destroy Clark. They are gown ups (almost( and rivals and clearly excellent players..
It is impossible to ignore the racialized aspects around their rivalry and doing so will lead us (as a fan community) down an even worse path.
In conclusion, some people need to get grown up.
When analyzing all of this information, I feel that it is important to remember that one of the founding principles of this country is "innocent until proven guilty," at least until recently. However, when it comes to Fever fans, it seems like it is "guilty until proven innocent."
There is one word that should rule this discussion: EVIDENCE. With the proliferation of camera phones, why has there not been one shred of evidence showing this bad behavior, especially considering that these accusations began last year?
I'm a big Fever fan and a big Caitlin Clark fan, and this is what I believe. If there is evidence that any fan engaged in this reprehensible behavior, said fan should be banned from all WNBA arenas for life. If there is evidence that the Fever organization knew about this behavior and did nothing, the team should be fined or have a draft pick taken away.
On the other hand, if no credible evidence is found, will the league office issue a statement saying so? And if they do, will it make any difference? It's often said that it's hard to un-ring a bell. Even if the league office issues a statement absolving the Fever and their fans, VERY few people will remember it. The majority of people will only remember the accusation.
I really appreciate your commentary on Caitlin/Angel and think it was really thoughtful.
That being said, I don't really get the narrative that Caitlin shouldn't have walked away. Walking away from a situation is a pretty well understood way to de-escalate, no? By the same logic, do you think that Angel shouldn't have walked away after she fragrantly fouled Caitlin by hitting her in the head last year? Are you saying you think it's better to stick around and taunt someone after you fouled them? I genuinely don't get it.
Once again you lot love making Caitlin the victim. The point is, Caitlin loves to do her dirt but hide her hands. That is the author's point.
I don’t think CC is a victim. It was a foul during a basketball game, no one is a “victim.”
She did the foul and ran away and was acting like it was just a regular take foul. She later admitted it was retaliation for the Howard foul right before. She threw in a push and was acting surprised Reese was mad.
It seems like a lot of players do that though. AT has done that. Reese did do that last year. Plum. Phee.
I don't think they are comparable. All those others are held accountable for dirty play
In what way? People accept that AT is going to enforce and then walk away and act like nothing happened. Same thing with Plum - she’s going to grab and pull you, then act like she did nothing when you hit the floor. I wouldn’t call either of them dirty players and that’s not their reputation.
I think culturally, to me (metro NY), committing a hard foul and turning your back feels disrespectful to the game. Like if you’re gonna foul someone and even if they react, you still face em like “yeah, it’s ball”. Caitlin I think has a bit of a habit dating back to college of playing aggressively (which I love) but trying to jockey refs by acting innocent (which I hate). It’s not unique to her, mind you. It’s all over the men’s game. And I dislike when players do it there too.
I took the walk away as a smart move on Clark’s part as I’m sure that the coaching staff has emphasized the need to avoid technical fouls with 43 games to go.
I appreciate hearing your thoughts, thanks for the comment! I'm from the upper midwest so I think there are some genuine cultural differences there. The SDSU Jackrabbits women's team is basically how we played in terms of attitude, haha. Not a whole lot going on.
I also did not expect the Mystics to have such a strong debut to the season. I have voiced many criticisms (from the privacy of my living room) of Sydney Johnson. I need to see more before I’m ready to rescind my statements but the rooks and the vets looked great this weekend.
Hi Andrew,
Your tick tock on the racism allegations stemming from that game strike me as disingenuous. I learned about the alleged “monkey noises” lobbed at Angel Reese by Fever fans after she was fouled by Caitlin Clark from No Cap Space. In Tyler and Greer’s YouTube video podcast about the Fever-Sun game, Tyler led things off with the allegations. He was scrolling his phone at the start of the video and seemed to be reading from tweets and texts.
No Cap Space markets itself as sports journalism. Journalists do not repeat unfounded allegations. I stopped watching the video after Tyler’s rather shocking (to me, anyway) unprofessionalism, so I don’t know if Tyler walked back his allegations at any point.
I have not seen a correction from No Cap Space for its role in spreading the “monkey noises” allegations, and I am surprised that this column does not contain a correction.
I’m also surprised that you wrote, “I’m not going to comment on the allegations about what was or wasn’t said in Indiana over the weekend. The videos circulating around don’t seem to give any real clarity and I haven’t been able to find any extensive first person accounts about any racism that happened in the arena that day.”
Anyone who is interested in how this bad faith claim caught fire can easily find breakdowns of it online. To the surprise of no one who has witnessed MAGA Twitter accounts hijack mainstream politics, the “monkey noise” allegations originated from a Twitter account that has since taken down the original tweet with the “monkey noise” allegation and gone private.
I have long relied on No Cap Space, Quita Loves Sports, and Rachel DeMita to follow news about the WNBA. (Also Annie Costabile – obvi -- before she moved to Frontline Sports). It is, quite frankly, very hard to find knowledgeable commentators who don’t also function as extensions of the WNBA’s PR operations.
The only reason I am still subscribed to No Cap Space today is because I cannot bear to go without Chauny’s takes on … everything.
I really thought No Cap Space was better than this.
Happy to address this now. I did not want to comment on the video in the column because we are a team. I wasn't on the postgame and they aren't on the column so it did not feel right to throw my own team under the bus to individuals that may be reading the column but didn't see the video.
We will be discussing it further on Ball Up Top this week and it's been handled internally. Effectively, it was a learning experience for everyone and while I don't think Tyler made any actual reporting mistake (he did take care to report that what he was seeing was unconfirmed), we should have been more careful as a team vetting the rumors before taking them to air. As Editor-in-Chief of the publication, that is on me and I take the accountability for that.
Thanks for your response. I know that Tyler was careful to say that what he was repeating was unconfirmed. But those statements were sandwiched between a lot of outrage from him about how the WNBA's "no hate" campaign was a failure and conflating the allegations about "monkey noises" with the odious Dave Portnoy's presence at the game. I know you and your team are operating in a very tough environment. As a former journalist with battle scars from reporting (and breaking news) on Boston's clergy sex abuse nightmare and marriage equality in Massachusetts, I'd encourage No Cap Space to adhere as closely as possible to confirming things (about the game as well as the politics of the game) on its own and only reporting/repeating what has already been confirmed. I wish you well in this venture and I hope you succeed.
I'm with you, Susan -- I stopped watching the post game video because of where Tyler started the conversation.
I am glad it'll be discussed on the next podcast because it was really off putting (and no specific stones at Tyler, whose enthusiasm and takes I usually enjoy). I really don't mind people commenting on the Clark-Reese exchange itself (but after the actual basketball talk), but starting with that was not it. I respect No Cap endeavoring to be different from the W media echo chamber/Twitter discourse, but that means you all need to put your phones down sometimes. Or show your work with real reporting.
Saskia, I agree with you about Tyler. (I'm a fan, really, of the whole No Cap Space team.) FWIW, I also do not mind the talk about Clark-Reese -- I don't know how anyone could talk about the game and *not* also talk about the foul. Sort of tangent: I can't help but think about how/whether the Fever will be able to keep this noise out of the locker room because unlike last year when it was all about Clark, now it has extended to other players and it is all so personal. One of the most egregious flagrant fouls of a rookie that took place last season was when Alyssa Thomas basically assaulted Angel Reese by the neck. I might be misremembering this, but I think Alyssa was ejected from the game because the foul was so bad. Reese was so shaken she took a long time to get up. She had no complaints about it after the game -- she said something like she considered the flagrant her welcome to the game. Much different from her response on Saturday, which was to get up and go after Clark. (Though I thought she handled the question after the game perfectly.) AT was also one of the players last year who accused Fever fans of being racist. DB's amazing achievement in Saturday's game is now being overshadowed by this BS monkey sounds allegation (which the WNBA actually issued a statement about). The racist fans in the arena thing simply isn't true. Then we've got Portnoy's presence at the game being connected with Sophie Cunningham. How in holy hell do they block all of this out? It is like a soap opera. I hope this comment does not come off as an unhinged rant. I just find it all to be completely bonkers. This crap does not seem to exist in any other sport. (To be fair, I only follow the WNBA and NFL. I try to follow NWSL but there is only so much time...) (Editing to add how every Black Fever player is being spammed online with the most vile, racist sh*t, which also happened last year but seems to have escalated this year.)
I trust in the Fever organization and those players -- including lots of veterans. This kind of noise can be very galvanizing.
I will say, to Andrew's point, is that "[t]he racist fans in the arena thing simply isn't true" isn't really a knowable thing. Do I think racist fans are representative of the overall CC/Fever fan base? Absolutely not. But do I think there were some racist Fever fans that might have said some nasty stuff in that arena on Saturday? I could see it because....people. Because....America in 2025. But whether any of that was heard by players/staff/officials/area staff and/or can be proven such that action can be taken? We'll see. The only specific allegation I've heard about is the monkey sounds thing that appears to have been debunked. Beyond that...they might as well look into things. I also think it doesn't hurt to send a message early before things get out of hand -- make people think twice before acting out in an arena.
I've actually witnessed racist comments at a sporting event years ago -- I was at a baseball game, in very, very nice seats. Two drunk white men sitting behind us made vile comments about an Asian player, and I stood up (I was extremely, very visibly pregnant), and told them to shut the fuck up or I would report them. They didn't say another word. I hope, like Andrew said, that other Fever fans would shut any nonsense down. I don't mind booing an opponent or supporting your team with passion, but there's a line.
https://youtu.be/Lt-CdQBRKjc?si=gWAVXdxHfqe-hmMQ This young YouTube commentator has the best take on this entire situation (imo)
Maybe Caitlin Clark walked away from the post-foul kerfuffle because she doesn’t trust herself enough to not re-engage in the conflict. She’s still testing the boundaries of the game and herself.
She is still learning just like Angel is. We have to give both of them grace. But any time women do anything remotely unlikeable...
Caitlin fouled her hard and thought she was doing a take foul, but she did extend her arm. She was wrapped up in the moment, and trying to live up to her promise and not get a technical, walked away. Angel was hit hard and got pissed. Who wouldn't! Refs actually called it correctly. None of what happened on the court or who these ladies actually are is driving any of this discourse. The drivers of the discourse could care less about who they are as people.
Both are learning, testing, improving, maturing, and trying to win.
As a well balanced, not hateful fan I call out hate when I see it, period. It’s rampant with people who claim to be fans of Clark and Reese. I have been following Clark for years and it’s sad to see so many people that don’t actually care about basketball use her for hate speech or use hate speech against her. If someone did something hurtful in the Gainbridge field house, they should be dealt with. Period. All this discourse takes away from how good the Fever played and that’s ridiculous
I had no idea that the NFL didn’t allow Portnoy at their games??
Yup. He went after Goodell and the league over Deflategate and they banned him. So…it’s not like there isn’t precedent!
Is Barstool banned from the NFL as a media member and also Portnoy as a fan? Was he at the Fever game as media or did he simply buy a ticket? (I honestly have no idea.)
I think the W/teams should be able to ban him if they want to (and he probably deserves it for just being an odious and influential person), but pulling credential versus an arena ban are a little different. And there's a bit of a Streisand Effect to any sort of ban. Also, the NFL and W are different leagues with different levels of cultural power.
Again, I don't want any full grown man in a full uniform of my favorite player showing up to games (because....ewww). But I'm curious about what the actual precedent is here.
God help the WNBA if the Tweeter in Chief decides to insert himself. The WNBA front office should have investigated as promptly as possible then say what they did to investigate and what they found. Not give the perception of legitimacy to what? An online rumor, an anti-Fever troll, or someone who actually witnessed a fan harassing a Sky player? We don’t know.
Making an announcement when they did was malpractice and deeply unfair to a fan base that has been ridiculed since the 2024 draft for the sin of loving CC.
So my understanding is it’s a blanket ban. It does have the potential to be a Streisand effect but he also is clearly showing up in bad faith so I don’t know how else to effectively combat it. If he was there every game like Sudeikis is, that’s one thing. But popping out just for this one vs Chicago? That’s an agitator in my eyes, at least.
Is "showing up in bad faith" enough? Does that rise to the level of being forcibly removed from NFL headquarters? I could see the argument that it does, but where do you draw the line beyond Portnoy? How odious/public/influential does a person have to be to be potentially banned moving forward? Does banning him deter anyone else or would they simply see it as a way to obtain a "badge of honor" and grift off it?
I hate using the term "slippery slope," but these are the kinds of questions the W/Fever will have to ask before taking action.
And I think that’s where the NFL precedent is helpful. Because he kinda got banned for just being an asshole to Goodell. He can do it as a badge of honor but I think the league stands to gain more in the long term telling dudes like him or the Outkick people they aren’t welcome here if they’re just coming to stir shit up.
So as a lawyer, I see the precedent differently, as well as the relative cultural power of the leagues. And with the W trying to actively grow/see a payoff for its investment, I would be surprised if they took a stand against Portnoy.
Ban them both as media? I could see it. A full arena ban? That's a tougher one.
Incredible
Ok - just excellent all around! Thx for talking about the games and talent first - whew! What a great end of games! And so well said re the discourse. High praise for a great statement piece from my perspective!
Well said on the last point! I don’t like that the onus seems to always fall on Caitlin to “control her fans,” I think you have the more correct and realistic take - that the fans themselves should hold other fans accountable. It’s always bothered me that Caitlin, who hasn’t actually done anything wrong, is villainized in these situations when we could be holding the Dave Portnoys of the world accountable. You know, the people who have actually behaved badly.
The criticism of Caitlin and her circle is that they engage the Portnoys of the world. CC wants it both ways just like with the foul of Angel. She engages with ppl that can benefit her but plays dumb when their toxic behavior is out.
When has Caitlin ever engaged with Dave Portnoy, or anyone like him?
She follows him on ig and Twitter plus her teammate Sophie was chatting him up before the game.
Are you really saying that Caitlin Clark should be accountable for something that Sophie Cunningham did/does? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
Surprise, a Caitlin stan makes excuses. Did I say she should? Reading comprehension on your part needs to be better. Point is, the organization on down keeps humoring this guy including Caitlin herself, who like I mentioned follows him on socials.
Surprise, another CC hater. If what Sophie Cunningham did isn't Clark's responsibility, why did you even bring her up?
I, as I am sure that you do, follow plenty of people on social media. Does that mean I approve of everything they have said or done? Most certainly not.
Just out of curiosity, have you seen any evidence that CC has engaged with this Dave Portnoy in person or on social media?
I gave the warning once. We're gonna call this thing a draw or I'm closing these comments.
Judging by Caitlin’s brother being an open Pro-Palestine leftist, I think it’s safe to say that she and Sophie are different people with very different political views.
While it is disappointing she follows him, I took a look and it doesn’t look like she’s engaged with him ever, at least on Instagram.
So excuses? Plenty of leftists can have anti-black bends. It literally is a excuse like most of your argument.
The point is all 3 tolerate Portnoy because he is their attack dog. So she can't hide her hands. No different than Dawn and Aja with Doloris.
Alright so here’s where I’m gonna step in with this conversation. Points have been made and we’ll have to agree to disagree here.