Transcript 0:00 [hip hop music] Hello everyone, and welcome back to Ball Up Top, the weekly podcast from No Cap Space. 0:16 Oh my goodness, it's been a day of news as we record this on Monday afternoon. Uh, but before we get into that, we have the best news always. No Cap 15. Use, use the code to get your first Homefield order. 0:28 Uh, it supports us, it supports y- I mean, it's, it's your favorite team. You're supporting yourself, really, by getting cool stuff like this, like the South Carolina. Come on now. It's all tough. 0:36 The hats, it's all there. Get it, got it, use code No Cap 15. Uh, Tyler, Shani Greer with you here today for Ball Up Top. Shani, it's been just a, a, a day full of news of your favorite people. Mm. 0:51 Um, we're gonna start off with the Dallas Wings though. Um, and I know, first off, uh, rest in peace to your Christy Sides to Dallas Wings agenda. Um, I, I am so sorry. Um, pour it out. 1:05 Uh, damn, not you actually poured it out. [laughs] I know some people on Twitter were taking you serious, which I thought was very funny. 1:13 Um, but the hire does come, uh, from a familiar face for Kurt Miller, uh, an assistant coach from his staff previously in Connecticut and LA actually, uh, and current, well, kind of current, I guess not now, uh, USC assistant Chris Pelonis- 1:31 Mm... uh, is the head coach of the Dallas Wings. Um, we'll get into kind of what we've heard a- around, uh, 'cause we, we've, we've done our poking around. We've seen people publicly talk about it. 1:41 Um, but I guess just for y'all, Shani, if you wanna start off with, with just some, some general thoughts on the hire and, and where this kinda, kinda goes for your Dallas Wings. 1:54 Well, every time I try and leave, something keeps pulling me back. Mm. But like, um, I said on the timeline, I was kinda like, I don't see how this is a significant upgrade from LT. 2:06 And to be abundantly clear, that's not to say... That's not the same thing as a bad hire. It's if you're going to get rid of this person who was in, uh, what, year two? He, she didn't get to do- Yeah. 2:19 Just, just finished, just finished year two, yes. Yeah. In year two, and you hire somebody else, I need to see, like, a completely different, um, direction. 2:29 Like I need to see something drastic and radical if you're firing somebody in year two. Mm. And so, 'cause like, again, Christy Sides, right? 2:38 Like I saw everything you could see in year one and year two to be like, "We gotta do something different." Mm. So that makes sense to me. With LT, it's like Enrique was playing defense. 2:50 He, she got her to buy in on the defensive side of the ball. Like she- that's Naismith type stuff right there. Mm. Like go ahead and give her the Bob bust. But it was just- [laughs]... really, it's like- Yeah... 3:04 interesting to me because all of a sudden people wanna gate keep the Wings from me. They were like, "Oh, if you don't watch us, just say that. Oh my gosh, people don't watch." [laughs] And I was like, "Wait a minute. 3:15 Wait up." Yeah. When I was in the trenches, all of a sudden all these Wings fans wanna pop up and like fa- and, and paper check me. Like where was y'all at- Mm... when, when I couldn't... Man, listen. Yeah. 3:32 So that was interesting, and it's also kinda like, the stuff people are saying to me, like, you know, the homie was like, "I wanted to see something other than Stephanie Soares at the three," and I'm like, Madi got hurt. 3:47 And then on top of that, what I keep saying, Greg Bibb- It's, it's been roster-... has been working... 3:53 problems, not coaching problems to me Everybody kept giving him A+es for his drafting, and then now you look and i- LT's gotta be like, "What are we having for dinner tonight?" "Well, we have some leftover mash. 4:06 We have this, that." Like she's trying to make a meal out of these random ingredients that Greg Bibb has given her, and it didn't work. Mm. And it's like, of course it didn't work. 4:15 And then you have Satou out again, and then you have, um, again, Madi goes down. Torres was coming back and like getting into form, but she was hurt all year last year. 4:26 So I, I'm kinda like, you know, you got Jacee is a r- uh, Jacee Sheldon is a rookie. Lou Lopez... We still haven't, yeah, we still haven't got it. Okay. [laughs] Okay. 4:40 So it's like when you kinda run down the, the list, like I will say you can probably talk about not getting the most out of the, um, Big T Kalani situation, but like I feel like that was kind of a p- like what else is she supposed to do if your 6'7" big isn't rebounding and isn't protecting the rim? 4:59 It's no different than any other issue that any... Like it's, it's, it's, it's just no diff- Nothing... it's just, it's just nothing changed more so than it changed for the worse with, with, with that situation. 5:10 And that was, to me, the biggest issue, like big... Uh, Teaira McCowan was not producing like she was earlier in the tenure. Mm-hmm. And so that kind of falters and stagnates, 5:25 and that makes a huge difference when you have Satou go down. Mm. So I'm kinda like, LT didn't get a fair shake here, and then we hire not Christy Sides to try and, you know, 5:38 fix some stuff that I feel like was a Greg Bibb problem. So that was very interesting to me how people were like, one, gatekeeping the Wings from me. I've been trying to get away from them for okay. 5:49 You should've just accepted it, honestly. You should. [laughs] I have no choice but to, like- Yeah... 5:55 but it, it like, and that's, that's something like as the game's growing, I know that's one of the byproducts, but it's just like y'all are just gonna-Everyone's determined to be annoying when they talk about women's basketball. 6:07 Mm. 'Cause I'm like, you don't have to like my opinion of the situation, but like why are you doing that? 6:13 And then if you see me on your timeline more than once and you don't like what I have to say, why do you keep coming back? I'm not gonna stop. 6:22 'Cause some- yeah, like somebody gets mad at me saying like this was a true whiff. Like they didn't hire Chrissy Size, a huge missed opportunity. "You can't be serious." I'm not. I'm not serious. [laughs] Context. 6:37 Like, my jokes are like months, sometimes years in the making. You're just joining, trolling already in progress. Yeah. And it's like if you don't like that, and you don't agree with- Gotta know the lore... 6:50 leave me alone... you gotta know, gotta know the, the Twitter lore. You gotta know what's going on. Like- 'Cause I'm not gonna stop. So that, that's my take. 6:57 Like y'all, if you're gonna be over here, put your big undergarments on, gender neutral undergarments on, and be ready to go. 'Cause I'm telling you you don't like what I'm saying is not gonna stop anything. 7:10 But yeah, I don't think, I don't think LT and, or her bob got a fair shake. Mm. And I just... It, it shouldn't be a huge downgrade, but it's still just kinda like a lateral-ish step. Yeah. 7:26 That's, that's kinda where I'm at and, and so in conclusion, the Dallas Wings have pissed off Shani. Who could have seen this [laughs] who could have seen this happening? 7:34 Uh, Greer, for, for you, uh, any, any additional thoughts with that? We're just in, in, just kinda general... 7:40 Like I said, we'll dive into some of the reactions about the hire that we saw in publicly, but just, just in general. Yeah. I also think like, um, 7:49 the Dallas Wings, like we didn't mention that Awak also wasn't playing for them last year. Mm. And that was who they invested in, in very early in the, in the lottery as well, right? Mm-hmm. 8:00 And so, uh, it's funny 'cause you're basically alluding to LT being on Chopped, and then she gets chopped. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, just having to make nothing out of some- something, you know. It's, um- Mm. So, 8:13 I mean, obviously their, their prospects are, you know, a bit different this time around because they've got the number one pick. Um, still debatable on who they should take. Mm. But with that, like what, 8:29 what are the expectations for this hire? Mm. Like to my knowledge, certainly with the USC Trojans, I don't believe that he was like, uh, Lindsey's number one assistant. No, definitely not. 8:43 And maybe in Providence, like it's a little different. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. But like, right? Okay. Yeah. And then if I recall his time with the Sparks even, maybe? I don't know. I don't recall. 8:56 You know what I mean? I'm trying to remember. Definitely not, definitely not Connecticut thr- right? Which was the longest part of the tenure under Kurt Miller. I, 9:03 I wanna say no with LA, but I, I, I could be, I could be wrong. Let, let me see if I can... Keep going. Wait, wait, wait. Keep going. No, Fred wasn't there, right? Fred had already left. Fred Williams. 9:15 Connecticut you mean or LA? LA. Like they didn't keep... No, 'cause he got another job. Wait, I thought he was working two jobs. Fred Williams, was he not in college and with the Sparks for a minute? I'm not sure. 9:29 Or am I thinking of- It could've been in the same year. I don't know that it overlapped though. I don't know. Okay. I believe he was just a- an assistant with LA, not the- Okay... 9:36 not, not like associate head coach or anything. Not even, wait, first lead singer, second lead singer. Oh, no. Second lead vocalist? Come on. Second lead vocalist, man, come on. You know? 9:46 That's- So like I know we wanna maybe talk about some of the inequities that we've seen too during this coaching cycle, but like- Mm... this is like a great example of like 10:00 y- yeah, you've done good things, but like who gets the job? Better. Mm. Who gets the job? You know what I'm saying? Mm. And so like this is a, 10:10 a market where they're moving to a bigger arena in downtown Dallas really soon. Mm-hmm. Um, getting the number one pick. You know, who most draft boards have Paige going as the number one pick. 10:20 Like this is a lot of pressure for a first year head coach. A first time- Yeah... head coach too, not just a first- Yeah... a, at any level from what I gather. You know what I'm saying? Mm. So 10:31 like when we talk about being set up for success- Mm-hmm... massive TBD on that. Yeah. No, I, I'm with you. I agree. I, I think for me, like... And it's not even to say like, "Oh, this is a bad hire." 10:45 Kinda sim- Shani, kinda similar to your point about how... 10:47 This, this doesn't make it a bad hire, but you go from LT, who in year one took Dallas to like some of the highest highs, I think, I think the most success in that run since moving to Dallas from Tulsa. 11:01 Uh, and then the second year you have all the injuries and everything. But there, it felt like there was a culture buy-in, right, and there was defense. Yeah. 11:10 That is what everyone is saying about this hire, is that there's defense and that everyone, like all, all the, like the... 11:17 For example, a friend of the program, Taliequon Hoffman, put a tweet out and was very complimentary of just like the person. That's what we keep hearing, the person, the person. 11:24 That is, like we saw a USC assistant coach, we saw Linds- uh, Lindsay Gottlieb, like all these different coaches, Nikki Colin, like it's about the person. Kurt Miller as well. 11:32 And so, but to me, as someone who was able to be th- in Dallas covering a decent amount of games, a, a solid handful. 11:38 But- Like it was never, it was never a moment in a press conference or anything where I felt like L- Latricia Trammell had, didn't have the locker room behind her back, and that she didn't have the back of her locker room. 11:50 Like my, it felt like, it, it, it felt like a, a genuine connected team. And pretty quickly too, I might add. 11:58 So I guess to me, if you're making the change, you're, and you're going to a first year head, or first time head coach more specifically, like-I would think a stylistic change would, would be the case, where maybe you go more to a, to an offensive co- Like it just, it seems like you are substituting the same strengths with presumably the same strengths, and that's what is, is interesting to me, especially- The man... 12:22 with, well... [laughs] And, and the thing is just, like, honestly, had Dallas made a decision where it's like, "We want to clean house completely," I'd understand. Right. I'd understand. 12:32 But Greg Bibb is, is still in the building, and, and, and has... So like, the... It's not the full clean house, clean slate, you know, that, you know, that, that's being made here. 12:43 Obviously Kurt Mendon now becomes the GM, like, so there's been shifting with that, but it's still just not the complete clean slate. 12:48 So not to say that this is immediately a bad hire or anything, it's just not the hire that inspires me, w- from, from a Dallas Wings perspective in that way. 12:57 It could be the long-term one that they were looking for, but if I'm Paige Bueckers and I got an extra year, I'm- Oh my gosh, don't you dare... I don't think I'm... 13:07 Like, not saying that this is gonna happen, but like I don't think that this is a hire that sways my decision to leave. Like in, in the sen- in, in the sense of like, "Yeah, I wanna go be away." 13:16 It's not another check mark in like the pro column, right? Yes, exactly. And, and I feel like that's what like this could've been. And not to say that... 13:23 Like you said, every indication from every person that we've heard from is saying like, "This is a good person. This is going to be a good coach." But it just, I'm not moved. 13:32 Like, and, and that's just completely just based on just, like, emotion and everything, as opposed to kinda basketball logic in the sense, 'cause it, it could work out fine. But I'm just not initially moved, frankly. 13:43 A- as opposed to a Tyler Marsh going to Chicago Sky, a Natalie Nakase going to Golden State. Those are hires I'm like, "Okay, y'all, y- y'all, y- it feels like y'all, y'all got a direction with this." 13:53 Whereas this feels a little bit more stagnant to me. Also curious to know what their actual current star player thinks about it. Mm-hmm. And Enrique. 14:01 I'll tell you Satou, this, this doesn't feel like a move where I'm like, "Oh yeah, Satou, I'm, I'm staying." It doesn't feel like this type of move. 14:08 And maybe that's just not even a thought, frankly, 'cause I know we, we felt like she's been kinda out the door already. But, like- Mm-hmm... so that might not even be a consideration. 14:17 But if, if that is, obviously we don't have like the direct insight on that, if it is, this certainly isn't a move where I'm feeling like Satou is moved either. 14:24 Like it's, it's, it's not a, a needle-moving move in that way. But to, to your point, maybe Enrique. Like it seem... 14:31 Like every indication that I had, and I didn't have any inside knowledge of it, this is all just, like, outside looking in, but the relationship between LT and Enrique always seemed really good. 14:39 And like we had the buy-in from Enrique. Like, so it's... I'm just interested in seeing. I, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like, I'm just, I'm not... 14:48 It, it could work out totally fine from, from a basketball perspective, but from right now, in comparison to the other moves, I'm, I'm not incredibly moved by it, frankly. 14:58 And on top of that, they have to reshoot the commercial now, 'cause like now you gotta put like Coach Ponytail and Cheryl Swoops and have little girls yell at him. Like I, it just doesn't even work. Oh, it doesn't, it... 15:09 Yeah. It doesn't work. One thing I... 15:11 And we could touch on this a little bit as well, and, and for full grades over all the hires, Andrew just dropped a video, uh, on YouTube as well, or that depends on when you're watching this. But it's out. 15:20 You can go find it. Um, so to kinda get more in-depth from each hire to hire. But one thing I do find interesting is now the hiring trends of this cycle with, frankly, a whole lot of men. 15:31 I believe half the coaches in the W are, are men now. Um, and majority of the hires in this cycle have been men. Um, I saw people on Twitter talking about it. I- it's, it's, it's between the college coaches coming up. 15:47 Like, this is just a very, very different hiring cycle. 15:50 And when you see coaches like a Katie Smith not getting a nod, when you see coaches like a Nikki Blue not getting a nod, who I thought did phenomenal in her time with Phoenix after Nygaard left, it's just a, a weird kinda switch to, to the trend a little bit that i- it's... 16:06 I, I like seeing new faces and new names. 16:09 These just weren't the faces that I was expecting to be seeing once we got to this point where all the spots had been filled, whether it be with the Mystics or the Wings, who both made their, their choices today. 16:20 But yeah, any, any, any thoughts on that? Are we, are we feeling, are we feeling any type of way? Are we... Is this just like- The women are like- I, hey, I, I'm gonna go- [laughs]... 16:29 for them to have a short leash if shit goes to hell. [laughs] Like, if it goes bad, for the... Like- Mm-hmm... uh, I, you know, just to be- I-... be on the same, like, uh, I want the same- Yeah... scrutiny. Mm. 16:44 All of the things. Mm. Like, I d- I don't w- 'cause there is a tendency to think, like, you know, so-and-so's had success here, there, da da da da, and then it's applicable to the women's game. And I... 16:55 A- and for the, for the most part, everybody's coming from within the women's game. Um, but yeah. Also, like, very curious to know about, like, um, styles, like, y- you know- Mm-hmm... 17:07 how a lot of these franchises now are just gonna have, like, I think, totally new identities- Mm-hmm... having to be carved out. And so just, like, I just want as much scrutiny [laughs] as possible- [laughs]... 17:21 on what people are doing. Yeah. Oh, this was- 'Cause that's, that's another thing. Go ahead. It, it is not just men, it's like first-time men. 'Cause, you know- Mm... 17:30 shout out to friend of the pod, but, like, Tyler Marsh, this is still his first head coaching job. Um, Coach Riblets, that was still his first... 17:37 And he was, like, in the press or very, like, open about how he doesn't know anything about the W, and I'm like, " Ew." Mm. Like, y- I, you know, appreciate the honesty I guess, but ew. 17:47 So to go from that to, like, now we're giving a bunch of men who have never had the opportunity before and, like, may not have been the second lead vocalist, I... like, we gotta talk, like, like, I'm with Bear. 18:05 Like, just- Yeah. I think that's all fair, yeah... keep the same energy. Keep the same energy. Yeah. If no one else will, we will. So- [laughs] Who is gonna be the male of Christy Sides? 18:15 You know, who, who's gonna be the male equivalent to Christy Sides? Don't worry, Shawnie will find us out. [laughs] She'll, she'll let us know. [laughs] Chris Side, come to the mic. Chris Sides is wicked. 18:26 I'm on the, I'm on the case. Yeah, and now he was gonna let us know. Um- And I would like to also point out, just as a- Yeah... 18:33 to wrap that up, I love the visceral responses to me saying Christy Sides got shafted, 'cause everybody's like, "Are you crazy? No. Why would they hire Christy Sides?" And I was like, "Huh." 18:43 [laughs] 'Cause everybody was yelling about how egregious it was that Christy got fired, and how it was just horrible. And I was like... 18:51 And, and I remember, like, me and a lot of the, uh, Fever fans on Twitter was like, "So do you want her to coach your team?" And everybody, like, went ghost. 18:59 Like, and some people that still ain't answered that question for me. So I think it's very telling that y'all were not chomping at the bit to get Christy Sides yourselves. 19:09 No, well, I can, like, definitively say the wa- the way the rumor mill was working at the t- was wicked. [laughs] Yeah... if you're Christy Sides. Yeah. That was wicked. Yeah. Um, yeah, she should've just been... 19:21 They should've just mutually parted ways at the end of the season. Mm-hmm, kept it pushing. Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. Nah, I'll be, I'll be interested in seeing if Christy Sides gets a- another, another crack at it. 19:30 I also think, I mean, I think Latricia Trammell, like, to our point, I... She was the name that I honestly wouldn't have been surprised if she just be right back in a- another spot. 19:38 I know before the Tyler Marsh hire for Chicago, she was a name that I was, like, kinda throwing in there. Like, it just made sense to me. 19:44 We're, I think we're gonna see several of these coaches that were not, or were fired through this cycle, I wouldn't b- I don't think they'll be gone long. I think there's several solid amongst them. But 19:54 we'll wrap that up there, uh, because speaking of people who Shawnie doesn't think is the lead vocalist, um, we have, uh, an Unrivaled signing. 20:05 Sabrina Ionescu is the final wild card for Unrivaled, and is teaming up with Satou Sabally to answer the most asked question in women's basketball: Would Satou and Sabrina win a ring? 20:21 And this time, it'll be in Unrivaled instead. Notably, according to Kendra Andrews of ESPN, "An unprecedented and historic contract which puts her salary in a category of her own amongst Unrivaled." 20:38 Shawnie, floor. Just, just take it. Just, just [laughs] wherever, wherever you'd like to go, just, just take it. I just, I'm here for the ride. I don't care. [laughs] It's their league. 20:50 They gonna take it and do what you do. Uh, yeah, that... Uh, hmm. And then she's, like, fresh off a BB... No, I can't say that. Stop. She's fresh off a- Shawnie. [laughs] Well, now you're backseat driving. 21:08 You said you were along for the ride. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You do- Hands off the wheel. Hands... I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You- That one just caught me off guard. That one [laughs]... Yeah, go ahead. 21:18 Go ahead. Fresh off of hand surgery, so it's like, okay, that's your headliner? 21:25 And I, I do think that's good that she's getting off-season experience, 'cause she hasn't done that in the, what, four years she's been in the league? So- No, she's never... 21:34 I don't think she's ever been overseas She's never played outside of the WNBA. Yeah. Yeah, so good for her, expanding her skill set, I guess. 21:42 Uh, giving all the money to someone who just shot 1 for 19 in front of the host. I don't wanna hear it about that, oh, her hand hurt, 'cause then why did you shoot 19 shots? 21:56 Especially if you saw none of them were going in. [laughs] She shot 1 for 19, and I don't even remember when the one came, but it wasn't like, "Oh, she's one for one. Keep going." 22:06 [laughs] It was like there were some shots, and then one finally fell, and now here we are. But, like, 1 for 19 is disgusting to give that the... But I mean, you know, gotta go with the shoes. 22:21 She's already being pushed, and we're already... The machine already did its job with her, so- Mm... this makes sense. Um, just like the Steph shooting thing, it makes sense 'cause the machine already won, so 22:37 good for her, I guess. Damn. How are we feeling about the Unrivaled roster now that it is complete? Um, I certainly think- We-... there are some players that were, uh, well- Yeah, but it-... presumably complete... 22:48 but, like, okay, did they replace Kelsey Plum with a player? Yes, that was one of these. 22:52 There was only, there was only two wild cards, but I guess 'cause Cameron Brink is, isn't playing this year, but she's already si- I'm confused by Cameron Brink still. 23:00 No- Like, they, so, like, they're, I guess they're good- She's gonna play in a few weeks. I don't think that's happening No, no, no, she's definitely not. They said 2026. 23:06 But m- I guess my question is, are these teams, like, repeating going forward? Because, like, they, like, kinda gave her... It's almost like a future draft pick in a way, like, for, like, that franchise of team. 23:17 But that means they're only gonna play with five in, in a month. Not even a month now. But, like, I'm... So I'm, I'm, I'm still honestly confused by some of the stuff. 23:28 And I think frankly, like, a lot of it has just been figured out on the fly for, for Unrivaled. And as, obviously, the wild card spots came in, like, I don't think that was initially the plan. 23:36 Then, then they expand the roster. Like, there was just a whole, whole lot of things. 23:39 And I think overall, and we've been complimentary of it, like, overall Unrivaled has been setting the standard for a whole lot of things, when it comes to partnerships, when it comes to the broadcast. 23:48 Like, there's, there's a whole lot of things that Unrivaled is doing right. The roster stuff, I, I'm, I'm just confused a little bit Yeah, there was a trade today. Well, it was done. Yeah, I... 23:59 Well, it was done, until it wasn't. And, and yeah, then there was a trade, which I didn't even know we could trade. I think that's where my confusion is, is, like, okay, next year, like, do we redo this? 24:08 Or, like, do, do we, like- Is it the same plan?... do this the same? Like- Yeah. Yeah, so that's like, did, did players sign on for multi years? 24:14 'Cause I know, like, Cameron Brink was listed as, like, a multi-year contract. 24:17 So, like-That's where my confusion is currently We need to do one event, one big countdown, and drop all the rosters and all the spots, who's playing with whom, da, da, da, da, 'cause we've been doing this since October. 24:32 And like, you know, it was cool at first. [laughs] Because- Now it's time to see the product and like how, how compelling is the basketball? Mm-hmm. You know? Um, I gotta be honest. 24:47 [laughs] I, I didn't even go as hard as I thought I should. I gotta be honest, Sabrina in a half court off, I'm not, either... On either side of the basketball. 24:55 So I, I'm not that like keen to watch it, I gotta be honest. So like if that's your big joker, Sabrina moving her feet in the half court on defense, I'm not that, or, well, it's not half court, right? 25:08 It's like- It's, it's condensed-... it's a small court?... full court. Yes. It's condensed full court, but still three on three. Yeah. Well, I- I gotta say, I'm not gonna- Less space... yes. Yes. Yes. 25:16 Less space is the point. Yes. Less help defense- Um-... is, I think, the most important thing... more, but also, yeah, you have to like really- Well, it's three on three and then like one on one, right? 25:26 Three, so there's a one-on-one tournament for like their like, it's like a separate cash prize. [laughs] So that'll be separate from, from the other stuff. Yeah, that's cool. 25:35 The actual, the actual games itself are three on three with subs and everything. So like that's why like the five, like one team's just gonna have five, I, I guess, is my understanding currently. 25:43 Hold on one second, 'cause Greer done activated something. 'Cause like I was just like- Winter Soldier code, just got smoked... two games in. [laughs] Go ahead. 25:53 'Cause three on three is about movement, it's about like sticking with your man, it's about having a deep enough bag to beat your man, like all things she doesn't have. So. There you go. There she went. 26:04 So- There she is... good one, sir. [laughs] That's how [audio crackles] wrap to, for, and, and Katie Lou included. Like to, for those to be your like I'ma up the ante picks- Mm. White women... um. Mm. [laughs] Yeah. 26:20 Um, mm, I don't know about that. 'Cause I, I kinda like eased off. There came a point to where I was like this is not the best 36 in the league. Sorry. 26:32 [laughs] Like there was a drop-off, and I understand things were happening, so I was just like, we're using that loosely, so I wasn't really tripping. But like, yeah, for this to be the grand finale, Black Mamba? Look, 26:48 yeah, I think, I think the problem was, and I, and to a point it's like I don't even necessarily fault Unrivaled- Yeah... for some of it, because I... 26:56 Like they do the o- the wild card stuff, and, and all the reports talking about Caitlin, you know? And I, I'm, I would, I'm sure that they had talks with A'ja Wilson as well. 27:04 Like, like the, the, the big name players as much as possible. Mm. Like so to a point, you know, they, they kinda, you can only do so much if the player doesn't wanna play. 27:13 So like for, for a product that hasn't happened yet, I still think the overall roster is solid. 27:18 And, but to y'all's point, like there's obviously some glaring names that are, that are missing that would be in the, the top, you know, 30 players, which then grew to 36. 27:27 And then I think also you then bring the wild cards as like the, okay, we're, we're upping the ante to your point, and y- you, you, you don't fill it with incredibly exciting players. 27:37 Which again, you can only do s- you can only go with the players that say yes, but also like, damn. [laughs] That should've been the Big 3 Year old. It's just that, yeah. 27:46 That should've been like Big 3, like now we get Nancy Lieberman back. Like, ha ha. [laughs] Guess what? Like now we're getting Angel McCoughtry. Like now, it's like we need some of the throwbacks that are- Mm... 27:58 retired/semi-retired. Yeah. 28:01 That would also been cool for like the coaching, but I understand like the emphasis on player development and like wanting to make this more of a legit league, I guess, of sorts, as opposed to a novelty le- a novelty league, which I think the Big3 has, kinda leans into more so. 28:14 Um, but- At least they got Joe Johnson. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They do. Hey, Iso Joby, I, they got some crazy clips in there. Yeah. But yeah. That's what I was saying. 28:23 Yeah, so we'll, we'll, I mean, now it's just kinda truly we're at the point of where we just gotta wait and see. Mm. And we'll be covering the games. 28:29 We'll be, we'll be watching the games and we'll be talking about the games. So like I'm excited to see it. 28:32 I, I mean, if this is a good product and, and the basketball is fun to watch, it's completely changing women's basketball. Like with the partnerships, with everything. 28:41 Like this, this, this is a, a potential landscape-changing league that we are about to embark on, and we get to be... 28:48 It's cool to be at the, the beginning of something, obviously, and, and, and be here for, for the very start. So we'll be on that 100%. We'll be talking, we'll be watching. We got your coverage on that. 28:57 Um, but speaking of the future of women's basketball, as we look ahead, as we look into 2025- [laughs] As we look into the years and years to come, I got a question. And this is a very general conversation. 29:09 This isn't like a current event or anything. 29:12 But off the back of Juju versus Paige, and Hannah versus Paige, and Hannah versus Juju, and also the other players that are making rounds like Keon McMiller w- going viral for, well, people are, like the, the, the ridiculous handles and everything that we've seen. 29:25 And even the s- seeing a star caliber big in Sarah Strong being so willing to, to shoot threes at the volume that she's at. And, and a- are we, this is the question, 29:38 are we moving away from forward dominance in women's basketball in the years to come? That is, that is w- that is just, just posing, there's no right or wrong answer, but I'm just intrigued in the opinion. 29:50 'Cause even the players coming up, Greer, I know we've seen a couple of them. Some of these guards coming up, whether it be a Leah Chavez, whether it be a Jazzie Davidson, who's kind of a, a, a, um, a, a mix. Yeah. 30:02 Uh, Kalina Smith, who just signed with Adidas, is- Jersey... that jere- like there, there is, there's a lot of guards coming up. It's not, like there's certainly some, don't, don't get me wrong- Yeah... 30:13 there's, there's forwards coming up too. But when you look at like the, the, it just, it feels like there is an, a, an-A interesting shift where 30:24 teams are gonna stop being built around guards, especially if you got guards playing defense the way Juju and Hannah are. But yeah, I'll just open... Like, what, what is, what are, what are we feeling on this? 30:31 'Cause I, I think it's an interesting shift we're seeing. I think dominance is an interesting word, because- Yeah... 30:38 dom- like, to me, there's just, um, like, physical gifts that some players are just born with that- Mm... yeah, I'm gonna, [laughs] I'm gonna, I'm gonna be dominant, 'cause I am literally bigger, faster, stronger. 30:50 And then on top of, like, the training that the girls are getting nowadays. So, like, um, you know, while Candace was like a needle in a haystack in terms of, like, 31:01 this feels like a once in a lifetime player, I d- with all of the resources that the women's game has now, it feels, like, more likely, like, things like that can happen. Mm-hmm. 31:10 I know Andrew has talked about some girls choosing to play other sports other than basketball, but yeah, when you see, like, all the NIL investment and all... Like, it just, it seems plausible that there could be more, 31:25 like, players like that who are just, like, just, like, physically just born with crazy stuff, and then they can get, like, the training to develop. I just think, like... So I always... 31:36 I, I do think bigs are always gonna be, like, you know, that... But I, I also think, like, a lot of the bigs are coming from overseas. That's another part of it. Mm-hmm. 31:45 Is, so we're not seeing them at 15, 16, 17 because they're playing in Europe somewhere. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. 31:53 So depending on how that shakes out, like, are more of them gonna come keep playing in US universities and colleges, I don't know. 32:02 Or are they gonna go, you know, straight to the league, like a Dominique Longo might do this year in the draft, right? So I think that's part of it. And then, yeah, like, y- as much, [laughs] as much as... 32:17 Like, Steph Curry also, like, has... As much as he's impacted the boys' game, like, he's also ch- drastically impacted the women's game as well. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 32:26 And, like, that level of precision, that level of, like, dedication, hard work to the craft, like, I just think... And then you get the, the, the, the Caitlyns, the Jujus, the, uh, Paiges. Like, now there's... 32:41 Uh, we can name, like, 12 other girls that we saw over the summertime who are going to be- Yeah... household, [laughs] household names. Mm-hmm. And I just think, like, 32:50 for guards, it may have taken longer in the past for you to know- Mm... oh, she's one of those ones. And now you're seeing it at, like, 15, 16. Mm. Mm-hmm. I think that's fair. I think that's fair. Like, yo- Shani? 33:06 No, I agree with Greer. Like, domestically, we're not... The girls are tiny 'cause even, like, Zach Randolph's girl, like, you know, she's a freshman, but she's only, like, six foot. Snack Snack was, like, 6'10". 33:18 [laughs] So I'm just like, the girls, the girls just ain't that big no more. And I don't know what they doing overseas, but they- [laughs]... you know? I know them school lunches be hitting it look like. 33:30 So I, you know, I- Children, free lunch. Please. Universally. Please. Please. If you want Hoopers, if you want us to keep winning gold, we need free lunch. [laughs] Please. Free lunch. Yeah, um- It would be better... 33:45 I, I'll get into that later. But, like, [laughs] we... Yeah. It's, it's interesting because I think they're more popular and more talented, but then when we start talking about dominance, that's, that's... 34:00 Like, you really gotta be doing something to be dominant. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. And South Carolina still has the on-lock ass post player, U, so we'll keep, we'll keep holding it down on our end. 34:11 You know what I'm saying? But yeah, I think I agree with Greer. Like, I think we're, we're going to see a shift in, like, the overseas integration. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think what's interesting to me is, 34:25 realistically, right, like, obviously we have players like Lauren Betts coming down the pipeline who was, were absolutely cornerstone. Like, you, you can, you can... It looks like a player that you could build around. 34:34 But I think the, the, the grand total of teams that are going to be, especially, like, as you win the lottery and as you're in the lottery, over the next three years, that are going to have a guard as a cornerstone piece, is going to be a complete uptick. 34:48 Like, how, I mean, when you think about the history of the WNBA, how many teams have really won a championship with the guard as their best player? Like, I don't feel like there's that many. 34:59 And they almost always, if they do, are paired with a star big. Mm. And, and it's, it's, it's normally, like, the, the big is the foundation of the team. Like- Well, no, yes, normally you're right. 35:11 Yeah, I'm saying g- I'm, generally speaking, right. I know... So Greer, what example are you thinking of? Come on, man. Don't play with me. Come on. 35:17 No, but, like, this, I think it's- No, but- Go with, go into it, though, because I think that is, that's- Maybe the, the, the Brickner, right? When Phoenix wins it, you know? Yeah. Phoenix wins. 35:23 So, so I think that is, that is one of the more interesting... Like, that is the exception to the rule. Like, like, to see a, a guard in that way lead, obviously you have a, a solid big. 35:34 Obviously, no guard's just gonna do it by themselves, but no big is gonna do it by themselves. 35:37 So, like, it's, it's interesting to think that in four years' time we're gonna have a Caitlin, a Caitlin-led team, obviously with Aaliyah there, more, you know, presumably. Caitlin, you're gonna have a Juju-led team. 35:51 You're gonna have a Flau'jae-led team. Paige. Like, these are the type of players that are gonna be built around. Okay, Shani. [laughs] Hannahs as well. 35:59 Like- 'Cause I'm looking at the ESPN Hooper, like the, the, the, the rankings for- Mm-hmm... college, um, you know, uh, seniors- Mm-hmm... high school seniors right now. There's only one player in the top 36:13 25, let's say, who's even above, who's, like, 6'4" or bigger. Two. Interesting.... two. Right? And one of them is Sienna Bet- Sienna Betts, who's gonna go to UCLA. Yep. 36:27 And, and, and, uh, is Lauren Betts's younger sister. But she's, like, also incredibly versatile. Yeah, for sure. I, I don't know what her long-term position is. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 36:37 Her ceiling is, like, incredibly high, you know? Yeah. Agreed. Uh, and then there's the girl that, that... the Australian girl who committed to Stanford that plays at IMG, S- Sonrai. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 36:49 Who I also, I haven't had an opportunity to see play, but from what I've heard, is a player that likes to go from rear as well. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. So, like, I... Yeah. 37:01 Like, not to say that players can't develop, you know, over time and, and... But you also have to consider that, like, 37:11 when, you know, you're watching basketball as a young player, like, w- the most appealing stuff is people who get to dribble the ball, get to- Mm-hmm... you know what I mean? Like, that's- Mm-hmm... that's what kids see. 37:22 You know what I mean? And that's what they wanna- Oh, them some amazing screens. You see these screens? Yeah. [laughs] That's so wicked. But no- Yeah... 37:29 I, I really think, like, I think, like, what we're seeing with Sarah Strong genuinely might be, like, the beginning of a, a... the player who has a... 37:37 who is considered, like, a dominant big and, and certainly can do all that, so I'm not taking away from any of the stuff that she can do inside, but to shoot. See her take five plus threes a game, that's not normal. 37:47 Victor Wembanyama just- That's what I'm saying. That's- Like, the fastest ever to hit 200. Mm-hmm. He's seven, I don't even know what. But, like- Who they employ? You know what I'm saying? 37:58 Like, he- Like, yeah, I just think chicks dig the long ball, so everybody wants to shoot threes. Mm. That was my nickname, by the way. [laughs] Everybody wants to shoot threes. It doesn't matter what size you are. And 38:13 there's no, uh, like, you know, that back to the basket, like, that's just... Even, even your, even your, like, three best players today who play, you know, the four or five in the WNBA, let's say. Mm-hmm. 38:27 A'ja, Stewie, Jonquel. Phee as well. Phee. All, like, can be ball handlers. I keep forgetting Phee. I mean, I- [laughs] My favorite people. Please. Go ahead, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. 38:40 So- Phee is the smallest one out of all of them. Yes. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Um, so, like, she has to be able to put it on the floor. Mm-hmm. 38:47 But, like, even A'ja, right, it's operating from, like, free throw line down, but facing the basket. Mm-hmm. Not necessarily away from it, right? Stewie, it's what she can do from 94, end to end. Mm-hmm. 39:00 Jonquel, tons of threes. And, like, you almost have to, like, hammer home to her like, "No, your advantage is on the inside." Mm-hmm. Because if you let her, she'll float to the perimeter. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. 39:12 So, yeah, just, I think just, it's just a theme across basketball, honestly, and 39:18 because there are so many examples for young kids to look at nowadays, and it's so accessible, like, it's al- also, like, speeding that up faster on the women's side I think too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I agree. I agree. Yeah. 39:32 Let's see where it goes. I'm intrigued. I really think, like, genuinely, like, as the next... If, if we see, depending on which teams win in college the next couple years. 39:41 Like, if, if Juju goes and wins one, or, or Hannah goes. Like, if we see these guards win national championships and lead the way in college, I really think that we might see a shift across the W as well. 39:53 Like, I, I think that these are m- molding years in this. If, if they s- if they prove that success is possible with the guard as a lead, which we've seen more so in college than in, in the W, for sure. 40:04 But- It's been a while. It's been about five years, right? That's what... Yeah, for sure. Right. 40:08 And so, like, but if we see this become a, a, a more consistent thing in college, I don't think it's gonna take long for the W to shift, especially as these players then enter the W and they want to try and replicate the success from college. 40:19 I'm intrigued. This is something I know, Grant. I think I, I reached this to you over the summer, I think, like, this, this idea of it. And, like, so this is something I've been, like, pondering for a minute now. 40:28 But ultimately, it's just, it's wait and see. Like, this is a, a, a process that if it happens, it's gonna take... It's not just gonna happen immediately. 40:35 This will be a couple years as we see the Jujus and the Hannahs enter the draft. But I'm intrigued by it. But regardless, that'll do it for us here on Ball Up Top. Thank y'all again, by the way, as we... 40:46 [laughs] On a smooth, smooth little conclusion there. Um, as we exit 2024, thank y'all again for genuinely, for tapping in the way that y'all have over the course of this year. 40:58 As we've said before, but we hit 1,000 on, on the website, 1,000 subscribers. We've hit 2,000 here. Uh, we, we've, we've hit milestones that we have not anticipated, frankly, over the course of this first year. 41:09 We're, we're coming up on a year in, in January, February, kind of all, all over, depending on what content you count as our first. But regardless, January, February, it's all over the place. 41:18 Um, but we're coming up on a year, and genuinely, we're incredibly thankful for all of you guys who have tapped in with us. And when I tell you 2025 is gonna be a fun year for No Cap Space, I mean it. 41:30 I, I, I'm very excited about what's in the pipeline. So, thank y'all. Go get your Home Field merch. NoCap15, use the code, get 15% off your first purchase. And we will see y'all next time
