Transcript 0:00 [upbeat music] Hello everyone, and welcome back to Ball Up Talk, your weekly women's basketball podcast from No Cap Space. 0:22 Tyler and Andrew here holding it down for you today. Uh, we are recording this right after South Carolina and Tennessee has just wrapped up. We got some takeaways for you. We got some previews both for the WNBA. 0:35 We got some more trade talk after the massive trade. We've got February preview for the rest of this college season. I mean, we are barreling towards March Madness. It is, it is here. 0:46 But to get you ready for March Madness, you know the best way to do that? Buy Homefield. It's just our friends at Homefield. Using code nocap15, you get 15% off. 0:56 Folks, I don't know if y'all have seen-- First off, if you're on the video, you see, you see Andrew with the Oregon hat. If you're on socials, I don't know if you just saw those hockey jerseys they just dropped. 1:06 Oh, they look so good. They're so good. Homefield, please, we are, uh, we-- You are suffering from success. There is so much good stuff, uh, at Homefield. Your favorite team is on there. Go get your stuff. 1:18 Get ready to rep for March Madness. Um, but let's talk about this, this South Carolina-Tennessee game, Andrew, just kinda some, some general takeaways here. 1:25 I know we were kinda talking as we were recording, like this is yet another SEC loss for Tennessee, but it's crazy how good a three and five in the SEC feels for this Kim Caldwell group, to a point. 1:37 She doesn't like moral victory. Mm-hmm. She's made that very, very clear. But you lose this game 70 to 63, it's... Look, I can tell you from experience, there's teams that have lost worse, uh- [chuckles]... 1:48 to, to South Carolina. So just to kinda kick us off, open the floor to you, your, your general takeaways from this South Carolina-Tennessee game. Yeah. Uh, let's start with South Carolina as- Yeah... the winner. 1:58 To the victor goes the spoils, right? Mm-hmm. 2:00 Um, shout out to South Carolina for this year deciding that after being called boring because the games were predetermined in terms of their result all of last year, Don Staley said, "I bet I'm gonna make this s-sumbitch interesting every fourth quarter-" [laughs] "... 2:16 so you have to watch us all the way through." Um, I know that's not what she wants. Uh, but, but here's the thing about South Carolina, man. 2:25 Even absent Ashlyn Watkins, this, this game is an exemplification of why this team is an NCAA title contender. Mm-hmm. 2:32 There's a lot of teams on the road with a non-favorable whistle getting run at pace after an emotional, mentally, physically taxing game against LSU that would've folded there and lost. Mm. 2:46 Um, and that's the thing with South Carolina, is they just hit big shots when they need to. You know, there can be these stretches where it doesn't look good, and it did not look good in that fourth quarter. 2:55 But when it is needed, you get a f- a 70-foot, you know, full court pass to Raven Johnson that she just drops in the bucket for the easy two. Mm-hmm. And those types of things are what 3:09 is the difference between a team that wins in April and a team that wins in March. Mm-hmm. Um, you gotta win games like these. 3:17 And, and as sketchy as it looked for a second there, you know, at the end of the day, there's, there's a minute to go and it's still a three-possession game, you know? 3:26 I, I think with South Carolina, we're itching so hard for a game that comes down to the wire, and it's like we get it. It's like Halley's Comet, you know? We get it in March and April maybe once or twice a year now. 3:38 Um, but that's the machine at work. Uh, we probably need to talk a bit about Joyce Edwards as- That's who I was gonna talk about... an elite freshman of the year contender. Mm-hmm. I don't think I... 3:51 And I, I really don't think this is hyperbole when I say it. I don't think I've seen a player on South Carolina with as high a ceiling as her since A'ja Wilson. Um, there is just-- There's already an established floor. 4:04 But if you look historically at South Carolina, the system as we know it kinda came into place after A'ja left. Mm-hmm. 4:11 And it turned into this scenario where you would have Aliyah Boston and Kamilla Cardoso or, um, you know, Destanni Henderson, Ty Harris. 4:22 You're making player of the year and freshman of the year arguments on advanced analytics and eye tests and saying, "Get by the counting stats 'cause everybody on this team meets." 4:31 She's the player that might end up being an exception to that rule. Hmm. Like long term, she might be the player that the analytics and the eye test hits, but she might end up having the counting stats. Mm-hmm. 4:43 Like you look at this game, and she ends up finishing pretty well, uh, all told when all is said and done. Yeah. And that to me- 18. Yeah, with 18 points. And she's already the leading scorer on this team. Mm-hmm. 4:57 Um, she's been last four games, 18, 14, 17, 21. Those types of averages, you know, you haven't seen them over at South Carolina in a good long while. Mm. Usually those averages hover somewhere between 12 and 14. 5:14 And while it's at 12 now, I think long term when you even out the SEC play numbers relative to her non-cons, where there's a lot of single-digit scoring efforts 'cause she just wasn't getting the minutes at that point. 5:26 Mm-hmm. Um, buddy, this is, this is a bonafide player- Yeah... that we are looking at here. And, and it might be a little late in the game given where Sarah Strong and Mikayla Blakes are at in- Mm... 5:40 the freshman of the year race, but she's number three easily. Yeah. No doubt. Easily number three. Um, I, I'd put her probably in the tier with Jelani Cambridge at Ohio State right now. 5:52 And if Joyce keeps playing this way with A- Ashlyn Watkins out, and they keep winning games and keep needing her to win, then you start talking about her over Blakes and maybe her over Strong. 6:03 Uh, Strong I think is still one right now in that race. Mm-hmm. 6:07 But, but buddyJoyce, she has it She's, she's, she's legit I'll, I'll give that to you because Joyce has it Oh, 100% Has it Yeah, I mean, it, it, it truly feels like the, the quality that you, you know, like 6:21 it's something about those South Carolina bigs that they just possess. And, like, it's a feeling I feel like when they... I don't know, I don't know, like, if it's just because, like, 6:30 it's almost like a, a legacy at this point, you know, like just of the South Carolina big that has like every... Like it's just always been one. 6:38 And, you know, even when we, when we question if there is one, which we've both done, [chuckles] we've been, we've been taught, we've been told a lot about it, our questioning of it, then Joyce Edwards comes. 6:49 And I, I- Mm-hmm... I agree with your assessment that I, I, I do think it's too late in the game for award push in that type of way. 6:55 But when it comes to the talent that she has and, like, just, like, the player that she is, she's easily, easily in that top tier of freshmen. First team. If... And, like, it's, it's, it's not even a debate. 7:07 Like, there's no question. Again, I don't think it's the award race because to your point, the, the, the limited minutes at the beginning of the year, stuff like that. But I mean, 18 points, eight of 13. 7:17 Like this is, this is the... The-- I, I always kind of go back to this one, especially with freshmen. This is the worst they're gonna be. Like, [chuckles] you know, this is... 7:24 Like, especially uh, uh, in a, a system, in, in a program that has been so great at just churning out these all-star, all WNBA caliber bigs. Like we're not just talking like, oh yeah, they're making it into the WNBA. 7:38 You have a, like, avatar succession of all WNBA caliber bigs that have gone- Mm-hmm... through Columbia, South Carolina. And Joyce Edwards, there's no reason to believe that she is not going to be that next one. 7:51 And I, I actually, I love the fact that you brought up the, the way that she feels potential-wise because- Mm-hmm... 7:57 and I, and I don't know, honestly, maybe, maybe it is just like the signs of A'ja in her game because I feel like she has way more A'ja to her game than Aaliyah or Camilla. Yeah. But I'm, I'm with... 8:07 Like the, the, the ceiling, the potential of Joyce feels like it's A'ja level. Yeah. Like, which is just a slight, a, a, a slight tier higher than Aaliyah and Camilla to me, like when and when I, when I say that. 8:21 And not, not that being in that tier is bad either, but it, it's just a, it's just a slight little bump up, and I'm with you that this even feels a little bit different with, with Joyce. 8:31 Well, it's just that length and versatility, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, Aaliyah, very traditional back to basket big. Mm-hmm. 8:38 Like nearly averaged 17 and 12 her junior year, and I, I think those are the numbers that would constitute a superstar at South Carolina given what, again, the system is now. 8:49 But you go back and look at A'ja's senior year, A'ja was averaging like 22 and 11- For sure... her senior year. Dominant, yeah. 8:54 And, and to me, like, that feels like where Joyce can go because she has back to basket post abilities, but she's got that jumper. You know, she's got that elbow game. Mm-hmm. 9:05 She's got some of those things that A'ja has intuitively that I think Aaliyah is having to learn in the W now. Mm-hmm. 9:14 I, I still think there's a shot, like if she really turns up in, in the conference tournament toward the end of the year, I think maybe there's an outside shot at Freshman of the Year, but I also think 9:26 I wouldn't dismiss it out of hand. I think my only argument to it is like Sarah Strong I think would have to lose it. I, I agree. I agree. And I don't know if Sarah Strong would lose it. She's been so good too. Yeah. 9:37 [chuckles] Yeah, exactly. Um, but, but, but to get back onto the South Carolina piece, you know, and to get back to the game piece, this is what you needed when Ashlyn Watkins went down. 9:47 And, and, you know, you mentioned it, and we'll take a bit of a victory lap 'cause a lot of people were telling us, "Well, they got Mariam Douda." I-- Not to shade a kid, 9:56 but I'm on these subreddits, I'm on Twitter, I see your tweets, I see your posts. A lot of South Carolina faithful not very happy with those minutes right now. And, and it... You know, she is a good player. 10:09 She can give you contributions, but to put her in the same tier as Ashlyn Watkins was never going to be the move. Sania Fagan, kind of the same thing because as great as she's been, she had four fouls, no points tonight. 10:23 You know, she had a really bad outing, and that's the con- That's the thing that I, I think people miss is that when you talk about losing a player, you're not t- you're not just talking about the ceiling of the player. 10:34 You're talking about the consistency- Mm... night in, night out that you're losing. And, and while the ceiling of a Sania Fagan or the ceiling of a, 10:45 um, a, a, of a Mariam Douda, you know, could reasonably on one game get you something resembling Ashlyn level production, Ashlyn gives it to you every night. Mm-hmm. 10:54 And that's the thing that you lose when you lose her to that injury. That, that said, you can still win games like this. You know, you can still beat LSU. 11:03 You can be exhausted in every way and play a team that is designed schematically to exhaust you on the road with a Tennessee whistle, and you still win. I mean, that's the shit champions are made of. 11:16 That's the shit the machine is made of. And so, you know, I, I wanted to do this first because I have a lot of really positive things to say about Tennessee and Kim Caldwell. Mm-hmm. 11:25 And, and I didn't want this to turn into like we're not talking about the winner here. For sure. We're talking about how great it is that the loser lost. Mm-hmm. 11:33 Um, so I, I, you know, I wanna make sure that South Carolina gets their due for another top 25 win and another manner in which they show you that they can win in a variety of ways. Mm-hmm. 11:44 With that said, dog, Kim Caldwell is it. Like- I'm, I'm, I'm drinking the Kool-Aid. I am, I am with you. Look, losses are losses. There's, there's no moral victories in this game. You're three and five in the SEC. 11:58 You've lost a litany of heartbreaking ways one after- Man... the other, whether it's like Vanderbilt- Yeah... fucking, uh, LSU. 12:05 You get within nine here and, and that, and then you lose, like-I understand Tennessee fans being like, "I can't do much more of this." 12:14 But man, in year one and you don't have the talent on the other side of the floor- Mm. And, uh, like here's the thing about those fourth quarter comebacks. 12:24 Yes, there's some shooting re- like progression to mean that occurs there. Bro, that's a coach that is scheming you into places. 12:32 I watched a team tonight not be able to hit the broad side of a barn from three, which is their bread and butter. At one point they're two at 20, like the- Mm... Sabrina Special in game five. [laughs] You know? 12:42 I had to get that out of the way 'cause I hear- There you go... Shawnee in my head like the goblin- There you go... you know, getting ready to talk her shit. Yeah. 12:48 But like at one point they're, you know, they're like two at 21, two at 22. Yeah. I mean, they, they end three at 26. Like that [laughs] is- And, and here's how I know. Here's how I know that you're in the mental rut. 12:58 Three seconds left, you're on the breakaway in the third quarter here, Ruby Whitehorn, instead of passing the ball forward or just pulling up for three, which is what these t- this team- Yeah... 13:07 is designed to do, she tries to get the extra steps in to get the easy lay in, and the basket doesn't count. To me, that was like, ooh, they got a mental rut where they don't think they can hit these. Mm. 13:16 And for a coach to know that, to recognize that, and go, "Okay, fine. Fuck it. Off the three line, pace, defense, easy layups. 13:27 That's our go, that's what we're gonna do, and take advantage of the bad fouls and the turnovers and some of the lazy defense," and some of the things that I'm sure Don Staley is looking at the film being like, "We can play better than that." 13:39 Mm-hmm. But this style of play is the only way of play I know, absent having 10 McDonald's All-Americans on the other side of the floor, and that's not a slight to, to Don Staley. Like you recruit who you can recruit. 13:54 You got the talent, you play with the talent. Like everybody else has to get their money up if they wanna get 10 McDonald's All-Americans on the floor too. Mm-hmm. 14:01 But if you have 10 McDonald's All-Americans on the floor or, or they do and you don't, you can't win the way they play. You gotta do something else. And we saw it when Iowa won in 2023. 14:12 You know, South Carolina didn't have shooters and Iowa had shooters and they won the game, and Don went, "I'd bet," and went out and got shooters. Right. 14:19 But right now what we're seeing with Tennessee is shooters plus pace, and it's not Rockets ball. It's not iso bullshit three-point ball. Mm. Like there's a ton of movement happening in that offense, man. 14:32 And they run and they platoon sub and they, and they wear your ass out just by getting you tired. And you will live by the three and die by the three in this system. 14:42 Kim Caldwell, I have no doubt, is gonna win a lot of huge games. Disclaimer, she's gonna lose a lot of them too, just because of the nature of this offense. Mm. 14:50 But seeing her ability to coach and scheme and adjust in-game, and even, even grabbing Spearman, uh, Zay Spearman, who wasn't shooting particularly well, and just watching her kind of big upper, right? 15:02 It, it looked exactly the same way Donna was on the other side of the floor letting Milaysia Fulwiley play through mistakes and being like, "Yo, it's good." Mm-hmm. "It's good. Don't worry about that bullshit foul. 15:10 Like it's all right." And, and that to me, I'm like, ooh- Yeah... we might have a fun... We might have a rivalry where one team actually beats the other here, you know? 15:22 And, and I'm not rooting on SC's downfall and rooting on SC losses. I want competitive ball. I want rivalries again. Um, and to watch Kim Caldwell in year one get this close to a lot of really good, really proven teams, 15:40 dude, she just feels like she might have it. Mm. And, and I know that it doesn't feel that way for Tennessee fans now because you have a standard, and the standard is the standard, and you wanna see immediate results. 15:51 But I mean, outside of, outside of, you know, Vanderbilt, these are top... I mean, even Vandy right now is a top 25 team- Yeah... that like took years to build. Yeah, every, every loss is ranked. They are. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 16:03 Like it's coming. Yeah. I'm really, really impressed with Tennessee just in the sense of what K- Kim is able to do in terms of getting them in the right directions late here. Mm-hmm. 16:16 Um, there's growing pains to build out. You know, also players gotta make shots. You can't-- Like you can't coach around three of 26 from three. Mm-hmm. Like at some... 16:26 And, and yes, some of that's South Carolina playing great perimeter defense. I watched a lot of really open threes miss tonight. Mm-hmm. 16:31 Like, you know, even a regret- even a progression to the mean there, um, where you hit 10 of 26, you know, this game is probably within a possession through most of the matchup, right? Yeah. 16:44 So, so there's components here that she's not gonna be able c- to control, and that is just kind of the nature of the offense that she has decided to kind of make her hallmark. Dude, I'm, I'm, I'm Kool-Aid drinking. 16:58 Me too. I'm Kool-Aid drinking. I'm with you. [laughs] I'm with you. Well done. Um, and again, no slight to South Carolina. Like that is the team to beat, the program of the moment. Mm. But phew, I don't think I... 17:12 I don't think it... Let me be clear, I don't think Tennessee is like coming for the belt anytime soon. No. Um, but Tennessee as a competitive SEC contender every year, that might come sooner than we think. Yeah. 17:25 I mean, look, we, we talked to Kim Caldwell, uh, in, in the lead up to this season. We, we had her on, and I know we, we talked a lot about the pace on the offensive end, and like rightfully so in that way. 17:37 But again, the, the defense that has come this season was something- Yeah... that frankly like just wasn't... 17:43 As I s- as I looked at this higher, as I looked at, okay, like what is the style of play before we actually saw it on the court, the defense, frankly, I wasn't thinking about it. Like just- Yeah... 17:51 transparently, I, I was like, "Okay, this is what the offense is going to look like." 17:55 And I didn't even re- like i- in my head when I'm previewing it, in my brain, what it's gonna look like, I'm not thinking about the defense. Yep. And to be able to... 18:03 You mentioned like the Harden Rockets, a- and I think the curse of these teams that play with this style of offense is the inability to pivot. Yeah. 18:09 And tonight we saw a pivot, and that's, that completely puts the, the potential to me, the, the, the ceiling raise of that-Because in March, if you're missing shots, you're missing shots, and, and you got-- you, you-- one, one off night and you could be done. 18:25 Yeah. 18:26 But the ability to pivot and, and even not even necessarily pivot because I think there's an emphasis pretty much at all times with Tennessee on the defensive side of the ball right now, and to have that emphasis be maintained while also you're still doing what you're doing on the offensive end. 18:39 But to see that on the defensive end and the way that they're forcing turnovers every single game, that is what's most encouraging to me. 'Cause you've got three McDonald's All-Americans on the way. 18:49 Uh, you're Tennessee, you can, you can make something shake in the portal. You can recruit. Yeah, you can get people. You can recruit through the portal, through high school. 18:56 Like, like the, the players that have been on visits, uh, for, for Tennessee this season, like of course, you know, everyone's going on visits, so like you can't put too much into that. 19:03 But like everything you're seeing... Like I-I've been seeing on social media when it comes to the recruiting visits and everything, everything has come off very, very positive. And like, this is, 19:14 like, I-- this is a, a program... This is a, a sleeping giant, frankly. And we talked, you know, you mentioned the, the Tennessee standard. The standard hasn't been there for a minute, frankly. Yeah. 19:23 Like it's, it's been a minute. So even, even though you take these losses right now, you're taking these lumps. 19:28 And the quote where she had like, "Either we're not good enough or we don't care," when it comes to the close losses, I'm like, I'm moved. Like that's- Yeah... that's a quote I'm trying to hear. If I'm a Tennessee fan, 19:41 w- you know, like obviously you care about it. I, I don't wanna minimize the losses 'cause obviously three and five in conference play is not good. Like, I don't want to minimize that. 19:48 But if that is what my coach is saying, I'm trusting the process here. Yeah. And, and like, and I feel like the results that you're getting just like on the court, like if you... 19:58 Like and, and what you're seeing and, and, and the almost kind of the skeleton of what can be a resurgence for Tennessee, I, I, man, I, I feel like you, you, you gotta love it. 20:09 Like I, I, I am, I am completely moved in a way that frankly, I, I wasn't really expecting in year one. Not, not in this way. You know, like you, maybe some flashes and everything, but like 20:21 these aren't players that she recruited for this style. And she won't tell you that 'cause she's like, "These are my players. 20:27 We're not worried about next year, we're worried about right now," which is another quote I love. Like she's killing the press conference game if nothing else. Like she- Yeah... the quotables are there. 20:34 Um, but, but realistically, these aren't her players in that way. This is not the style that she recruited for. Some of the players coming in, in, in this next class are gonna be able to play this style. 20:45 I don't know how immediate that'll be and everything, but like y- it's, it's here. Like the, the, the skeleton of what can be great success again for Tennessee is here with Kim Caldwell. And- Oh, yeah... 20:56 and, and I, I, again, the losses are the losses and I, and to your point, there's no moral victories, but at least it feels like there's a bit of a direction. 21:06 Because even though Tennessee would win, may-maybe win some of these games in past years, whatever, it, it never... Like where was the level up in that way? Like again, it never felt... 21:16 I mean it, like it, it kind of never felt like there was the level up was incoming. It feels like there's a level up very much w-w- in the next year to two to three. 21:27 I, I feel like there's a tier level up on the way for Tennessee, 'cause I just don't feel like this system is too hard of a sell. 21:34 Um, what, 'cause if you're a young player, you're gonna be getting some minutes 'cause of the way that you sub. 21:39 If you're an older player, you're gonna be able to shoot and have the freedom and, and to D up if you, if that's your th- Like there's, I feel like there's something for everybody, and then that's not even getting into the fact that this is Tennessee that you [chuckles]- Yeah... 21:50 that you're talking about. I just, I feel like the success is on the horizon. Well, and with the Kellie Harper teams too, and, you know, not to say that there's never gonna be 21:59 losses that you should've won on the- For sure... schedule, right? But, but for the most part, this team is beating the teams they should be beating. Mm-hmm. Um, and the other issue with the Harper teams, 22:10 when it came to games against teams like South Carolina, especially in the regular season, BTA. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, it was a lot of belt to ass- Yeah... courtesy of Dawn Staley. And so for, 22:24 for year one to have this be competitive in the way it is, is, as you said, a, a good mark for the future. And, and you know, I, I say this as a media guy, right? 22:34 So I can understand how fans can kind of groan at like the "Ugh," you know, type of reaction to it. Mm-hmm. Look, women's basketball right now needs its brands, you know? Like we're in a moment- Mm-hmm... as a sport. 22:50 And, and as a sport, I think everybody that is historically good continuing to be good- Mm-hmm... we need that because we need all of the high level match-ups, all of the juice. 23:06 We need all that stuff, man. Like Caitlin Clark and Iowa was a perfect match because, you know, I think people miss the fact that like there really was, has never been a Big Ten star as big as her. Mm-hmm. 23:18 But Iowa has literal decades, almost an entire century of background in support for women's basketball as a state. Mm-hmm. USC is a historic basketball brand. Texas is a historic basketball brand. Ditto UConn. 23:35 Ditto Tennessee. South Carolina has come in in the last decade and a half and has turned into one of the premier brands- Mm-hmm... in the sport, right? 23:44 And so we need all of them being good right now because that's how you capitalize on the momentum that's been built. The last bridge I'll have for you, um- Yeah... 'cause I know we're about to go into WNBA stuff, 23:57 if you are an LA Sparks fan and you're watching Kim Caldwell, it should make you feel good about Lin Roberts. Ooh. Okay. 24:02 Because as somebody who has covered Lin Roberts at Utah for a long time, you talk about that ability to pivot. Mm-hmm. Lin has that ability to pivot. Mm-hmm. 24:10 You know, we saw that a lot with the Alyssa Pealy teams, right? Because, uh, you know, Pealy could shoot from three. That wasn't where she wanted to be all the time, though. Mm-hmm. 24:18 And when stuff got clogged on the perimeter and, you know, Jenna Johnson or Janae Neepkins or Kenydi McQueen can't get that shot-They were very resolved to changing what they needed to do, to going inside, to playing mucky ball. 24:32 You know, Janna Nepkins not really a, a three-point specialist, like she makes her hay inside. Mm-hmm. 24:39 And Lynn was able to win a lot of games doing the type of shit that Kim Caldwell has shown that she has the capability to do this year. 24:46 And so I know a lot of people are freaked out about that quote in the press conference about, you know, three is more than two, but Lynn and Kim share a lot of similarities from a schematic end, at least I think so. 24:58 Um, and, and I say that in terms of like their ability to adjust in-game and not- Mm-hmm... get married to the three philosophy. If the three is not working, they will find a way to try and win in game. 25:10 And so if you're a Sparks fan, you should feel pretty good about that, especially now with Kelsey Plum, who can score at all three levels too. Yeah. Well, you mentioned Kelsey Plum. 25:17 Let's, let's, let's get into that trade, uh, because the dust has settled a little bit. 25:21 You know, we, we had our initial reactions, which you can find both on podcast platforms and here on the YouTube if you're watching here now. 25:28 Um, but now that the dust has settled, uh, the, the, the sen- like the kinda sentiment that's been going around was this was the first domino. This was the one that everyone across the entire WNBA was waiting for. 25:42 Get the Jewell trade done and we'll go from there, is kinda what the sentiment has been. 25:47 The trade has been done, Andrew, and I'm, I'm interested for you, um, is there a next domino that you're, you're interested in seeing? Is there... 25:55 What, what, what is, I guess, on the horizon, whether it be a, a free agent signing, whether it be another trade? 26:02 Is there something on the horizon that you're, you're really like eyeing as what could be, uh, maybe a next major move within WNBA free agency? Well, I know Greer isn't here. Uh-oh. So I am loathe to steal her point. 26:17 Okay. So I will, I will, I'll touch it, and then I'll, I'll go with a different- Okay. Okay. There's a lot of UConn connection at Seattle. Mm-hmm. Sue Bird connection, 26:29 ownership that has worked with Sue for a really long time, do have pick number two. Paige to Seattle? Look, Nica's there. I know Nica texted the eye emoji whenever that trade went through. 26:46 Like- I-- Like, it, it feels possible. It feels doable. Feels way more probable than LA. 26:53 I had a lot of people, I had a lot of people comment actually in, in the days after being like, you know, "Olivia Miles to Seattle, what is the harm in that?" And honestly, I'll re- I'll reevaluate that take. 27:02 Like, I can... Skyler at 34 and you want a true point to kinda come in and learn the ropes from her, Notre Dame connection of mentorship, I could see that. But I am very interested in the idea of what if Dallas 27:18 pulls a total bullshit move and, and drafts Miles one? And then- I mean- Because they know, because they know that, you know, the deck chairs are going in place for Paige to say, "I'm not gonna go there." 27:29 Um, it-- that's, that's conspiracy. That's happening. Uh- Yeah. We'll, we'll get, we'll get into the number two pick after this. No. We, um- Like, let's, let's, let's get into it... 27:36 the next, the next major domino I think that is going to fall here- Mm-hmm... um, I, I feel like BG's gonna be a big one. Mm. Because here's, here's why I feel like BG is the next domino in a lot of ways. 27:55 People, I think, will prioritize BG over Brianna Jones, who I would argue right now is the more... I- if I'm building a roster, I'm more interested in, in Brianna Jones- I'm taking, I'm taking Brianna 100%... 28:05 as a starter than BG right now. But I think there's star power, there's scoring ability. There, there's things for BG. Um, you can kinda write off the last year. 28:14 I mean, this is, you know, there, she had a lot of stuff happen. Mm-hmm. You know? And, and that takes, uh, you know, that can take some time to kinda get back to yourself in. Um, she looks super happy in unrivaled. 28:25 She looks great. So I, I'm curious kinda how that translates over into W play. But front courts u- are, are usually the big things you wanna fill out, right? Mm-hmm. 28:34 And in spite of her age, nobody is leaving a 6'7" BG on the market for an under market price. Mm. Like, that is just simply not going to happen here. And so, you know, you, you have Phoenix who has a need. 28:48 The Valkyries have a need. Um, shoot, man, I-- like, the Sparks could use her and, and mess around in that three, four, five spot with, with BG, Rickea, Hamby, Brink. Um, you know, the, 29:04 the Fever could fucking use her like as- Yeah, yeah. Right... a rim, as just a rim protector and- Yeah... an offensive presence at the five. 29:12 Uh, you know, like, there's all sorts of really interesting ones there, and I think initially my answer was gonna be Satou, but I, I feel like that- 29:22 I, I could very s- I could see that happening I, I'm trending more liberty, I'm, I'm trending more liberty there now to the point where I don't know how interesting or shocking Satou would be. 29:30 I, I, I was, I was gonna make that point, yeah, 'cause I feel like Sat- a-and once we got the report from, from Andy Kotsabul that, uh, th- th- I, I think it was Andy that reported it. 29:38 Um- It, it was Br- it was our, it was Sabrina Merchant from the Athletic. Oh, okay. Okay. Sabrina, sorry, sorry, sorry. Yes, that was the Athletic. Sorry. 29:44 Um, but once we heard the news that it wasn't gonna be Indiana, like, like presumably, like, that was kinda what was going on, we did see Aliyah and Satou hanging out outside Arrival in Miami, though, so eye emojis. 29:55 But, uh, it, it certainly feels like it's, it's gonna be New York, which is insane [chuckles] um, to, to, to say that the Champs are adding Satou. But when it comes to BG, I, I think I'm with you. 30:07 Uh, that, that, that feels like a, a very plausible next domino. Um, I think it could be Las Vegas, um, if you feel like you'd rather have BG than Kia Stokes, um, which I think is valid, frankly. Yeah. 30:20 And I, and I'm frank- like, honestly, like, I, I had my initial reaction video. I kinda had the emergency video go up when, when b-this, this news about BG came out. 30:28 Um, and-To me, the very first two teams that came to mind were Vegas and Minnesota. And, 'cause Minnesota is just a team that purely lacks size, like just true size. They have good bigs- Mm-hmm... 30:39 but when it comes to just having height and size, they don't have that. And so I, I-- you have the Team USA connection with Cheryl Reeve, the head coach of Team USA, head coach of the Minnesota Lynx. 30:50 Uh, that's, that's one that like, you know, if, if this is a cheap kinda ring cha- not ring-chasing, but you know, ring-chasing. No, it is. We can call it what- Like, yeah... 31:00 there's gonna be a, uh, we said it on the last show, there's gonna be a lot of this shit this year. Yeah. One-year deal- One-year rentals... like one-year deal- Like for sure... 31:07 especially if you're getting, you know, below market price for what you might anticipate BG, Vegas feels like a very good one. They already have a history of, of kinda doing this. 31:15 If you look at Candace Parker, like that is, is kinda that similar vein of, of that. Um, and Minnesota, again, like I just... I feel like they could use the size. 31:24 And, and I feel like Minnesota is an interesting one to me if, if I'm BG. Um, and, and I, I-- it doesn't really seem like BG is going for a reduced role like in, in this. Mm-hmm. 31:35 Like that isn't really kind of the vibes that I'm getting. But when it comes to just being able to rotate you out, you're not gonna be able to do that a ton in, in Vegas. 31:42 Like if you're going to Vegas, you are going to be a starter. You are going to be like asked upon to, to be a five like commonly, uh, in Vegas. Minnesota, you got a little more rotation there. You got more depth there. 31:55 Um, just- Mm-hmm... just in, just in the amount. You got Dorka. You have like, you have, you have like just depth that's not even really playing on the bench- Yeah... right now that we saw this year. So 32:04 it kinda depends on the mindset a little bit. Like I don't even know if BG would start frankly in Minnesota. I don't know if they would, uh, like I feel like that could be a very- Third quarter girl... 32:13 like I, I feel like that could be a very like matchup heavy. Like obviously BG's gonna get minutes regardless, but there's just certain teams that you just play way more against. Yeah. 32:21 I could see that happening in Minnesota, and I think that'd be a really interesting, um, pivot in, in Cheryl Reeve's arsenal to be able to say, "Yeah, we have BG to go to whenever we have these bigs." 32:32 Like Jonquel Jones was a problem at times just purely based on her size in the finals. Yeah. 32:37 And, and, and we saw her just have those type of issues, uh, or just cause issues really for, for Minnesota a- across the entire playoffs. Obviously they, they overcame most of it, but that was the issue. 32:48 That was the thing. We were asking during the playoffs, "Why are you not playing Bree Jones when you're Connecticut? Why are you not going to Bree Jones?" Because she was able to be dominant and big. 32:57 And we, again, it, I don't know if there's many better answers on the market, especially if it is a lower price than BG. So I'm-- those are the two teams that I immediately go to. 33:08 I think, I mean, it, it, it didn't sound like Phoenix is off the table completely, but like, it, it sure doesn't feel like a return is, is coming. 33:15 It sounds like DT, uh, the, the rumor mill is saying more towards retirement, and I, I could definitely see Phoenix just wanting to kinda clean slate. 33:23 You roll with Kah, you roll with Natasha Cloud, you roll with Soph- Sophie Cunningham. 33:27 There's a worse foundation to have when you're kinda resetting a little bit, uh, if, if you are Phoenix, but you've traded away a lot of your picks as well. 33:34 So that's, that's kind of the interesting balance there for Phoenix in this. But, uh, it, I mean, this is gonna be a new Phoenix Mercury era. 33:43 Like, I mean, you, you're losing p- potentially two staples of this franchise, two champions of this franchise. Obviously, Diana Taurasi goes without saying, but- Yeah... but Brittney Griner as well. 33:55 Losing both of those players in the same off-season is crazy potentially for the Phoenix Mercury. Well, and it depends on owner Matt Ishbia's appetite to tank. Mm-hmm. You know? 34:04 I mean, he's, he's kinda cut from the cloth of like a Joe Lacob type- Right. 100%... where he's like, "I, I don't fucking lose ever." Mm-hmm. Um, however, 34:14 I mean, dawg, you own two Phoenix franchises, and you could conceivably next year pair Juju Watkins and Kevin Durant on the billboards in Phoenix. And like I get it- That's crazy... 34:24 he's 37 next year, like he's coming to the end, but boy, what a passing of the torch that, that could be for your marketing team. 34:29 Worst case, it's Devin Booker and Juju Watkins, and you're still, you're still feeling great. You know? Like [laughs] and so is Nike, by the way, if that happens. 34:37 [laughs] Well, and, and that's, you know, that's why I think it's smart for them to wipe it clean, but also BG leaving is gonna tell you a lot about the priorities of the Mercury going forward too. Mm-hmm. 34:49 Like if they give her like the Kobe contract and are like, you know, lifetime achievement award type shit, you'll know Ishbia is prioritizing staying in playoff contention. Mm-hmm. 35:00 But, but if she goes to the, to the Aces on a, on a cut-rate deal, which is very likely, I think just given the fact that again, one-year rental plus whole hell of a lot of Team USA on that team, boy. Yep. 35:14 Bre Lloyd, Chelsea Gray- 100%... Asia, like, you know, I, I'm pretty sure that starting five might actually end up being Team USA if you end up with BG. But like- It would be, yeah. It, it'd be- Yeah... 35:24 all Team USA players, yeah. But, um, but the piece to it that, you know, I, I think is, is really interesting is if she goes there, that effectively takes the Aces off the free agent market. Mm-hmm. 35:40 It also can spur a desire from the Liberty to take a swing on a Satou or even an Emma Meesseman, for instance. Meesseman is, is- You know?... is, mm-hmm. 35:50 And, and if you're Phoenix, does that mean if it, you know, you c- you can still conceivably compete here because can you execute a sign and trade that gets you AT and DeWanna Bonner- Mm.... 36:01 you know, down to Phoenix and, and bring DB back down there? Like- Interesting. I hadn't thought about that... 36:05 there's, like there's, there's a lot of different permutations you can get, and that's why I think BG is kinda the next one because the center, at least in my opinion, the center is your build around for any front office in basketball. 36:21 Mm-hmm. So and so reasonably the best center on the board is going to be the first person that logically people are into- Mm-hmm... 36:29 you know, and, and want to take first, and then everything else kinda comes around on the side. Yeah. No, I'm with you. 36:34 I, I think to that pointI think it might depend on the rate, but I feel like Bre Jones is immediately in that conversation as well. I agree. Um, if she ends up not just... 36:43 Like, 'cause me personally, I, I'm picking Bre J- like if I'm just picking one versus one, like I'm taking Bre Jones like in, at, at this, at this point in BG's career. But- Mm... you're talking price points. 36:53 There's obviously so many different factors that go into that. 36:55 But I, I do think if BG leaves, Phoenix becomes an incredibly interesting, um, team, just in the sense of, to your point, like we, we've seen it with, [chuckles] with Matt Ishbia. 37:07 He's, he doesn't seem like the tanking type. Um, and if you have Asatu Sabally on the board, uh, to potentially trade for... 37:15 Again, I don't know how much you got left to trade after the Kah trade, which I, I don't feel like anyone regrets doing. Mm-hmm. But like it's just the real- realistic, you know, this is what you're working with. 37:24 Yeah, totally. Um, S- Satu would be a really interesting one in Phoenix. You have the new facility. I got to tour at All-Star Weekend when I was there boots on the ground for No Cast Base. Beautiful facility. 37:35 Uh, it, it, it's incredible. Um, I think Satu's an interesting one. I also think just Misa into Phoenix, you know, if, if that is a... I mean, it would fill a need in that way. So I, I'm intrigued. 37:46 I, I feel like even if this is, uh, a very, very, very different looking Phoenix Mercury team, I absolutely think that depending on the moves that they make, like there, there is a potential for them to still be a playoff caliber team going into this next WNBA season if they go and get Amisa, if they go and get Asatu. 38:05 Mm. 38:05 Like this, it's, it's gonna take some work, but it's, it's the, the pieces, when you have Natasha Cloud, you have Kahleah Copper, like you have very good foundational pieces to, to potentially spur a little bit more success than you might think would be coming after BG and Diana Taurasi potentially are no longer on your roster, which is gonna be insane the day that we, we see that. 38:25 That'll be very, very- It'll be an era. Truly. End of an era. Truly. Crazy. 38:29 I, I do-- we, we briefly touched on it, but I do wanna talk about the start of potentially a new era, um, in Seattle because this trade, uh, getting Seattle the number two pick, which I've seen people questioning like if this was a good haul, a bad haul. 38:44 I feel like that's a great haul, frankly, uh, if you're Seattle. Like I, I would be very happy with this. 38:50 You know, Jewel Lloyd kind of force- I mean, forces her way out, and you end with the number two pick in what could, you know... E- especially with the, the question marks surrounding Paige Bueckers, 39:02 I'm feeling great right now if I'm, if I'm Seattle. Like this could have gone a whole lot worse. 39:06 Um, I, I, I kind of just wanna run down some of these possibilities, right, uh, with this number two pick, 'cause I've seen people talking about potentially trading it, you know, and kind of going into win now mode. 39:17 I, I don't know who does that for you, um, in, in the sense... Like I, I don't know what that looks like for this. I, I saw, I, I saw Kelsey Mitchell's name being thrown, thrown around just a little bit on- Mm-hmm... 39:31 on Twitter. Um, I, I mean, Satu is, is another player that technically could, but like even I, I don't, I don't feel like that exactly fits in that way. I, I'm really not moved by, by any of these potential trades. 39:43 And I feel like Kelsey Mitchell is the obvious kinda like one-to-one Jewel replacement- Yes... in, in that way if that's what you're going for. 39:50 But if I'm Seattle, I'm, I'm kinda okay not going for that one-to-one replacement, frankly. Uh, I'm, I'm not too hurt about that. 39:58 Um, now if you're Indiana and you can go get the number two pick, hey, you're feeling, you're feeling pretty good. Um, but- I think I'd be very happy with Kiki Herrafan. Absolutely. Or that. Um, or Dominique Long. 40:09 I think you're happy with, with either one of them. Yeah. Whichever one you wanted to go get, you'd be very, very pleased with. 40:13 But not thinking trades right now, 'cause I, I think we'll kind of have to see how that- Yeah, we'll get there... well, how that comes as, as free agency continues. 40:20 Just purely from a draft perspective, you, we, we, we, you kind of touched on Olivia Miles a little bit. 40:25 We, we, we harped on this slightly in our immediate reactions, but we mostly focused on Kelsey Plum and Jewel Lloyd. So I wanna hone in on this number two pick because, 40:34 a- again, I feel like it's a great haul, and, and I also feel like Olivia Miles could be the pick. 40:39 But in comparison to where we were when Los Angeles held this pick, every other door is now creaked open in a way that it wasn't before, that the Seattle Storm could potentially enter into, whether that be a Kiki Herrafan, whether that be a Dominique Malonga, whether that be a Sonia Citron. 40:54 Like there is several different doors here that Seattle could pick. 40:58 Now that we've had a little bit of time to sit with this, uh, and we could kind of run through the, the potentials here of, of different players if you'd like, where's your head at in, in, in the sense of where the Storm should go with this number two pick? 41:12 I'm more into the idea of Olivia Miles than I was a couple of days ago. Mm. Um, [coughs] excuse me. Um, a big part of that is, you know, you go in and look at that roster, and uh, Ezzie is still young. For sure. 41:26 Jordan Horston is still young. You know, you've got Nneka and Skylar as kind of win now pieces. Gabby Williams kind of sits in no man's land a little bit. Yeah. 41:35 She's 28 years old, so like the window is still open for her. Mm-hmm. She could reasonably be 31 when this rookie class starts to mature and hits 24, 25. Um, so with that in mind, 41:48 Skylar Diggins could be a mentor to Olivia Miles. Mm. You could absolutely end up in a realm where you have a, a passing of the torch of Notre Dame guard to Notre Dame guard. Mm-hmm. 41:59 Uh, what I think that requires a little bit is a more true shooting guard. I think Horston right now is, is good, but, but I, I get more defensive specialist from her- For sure... 42:12 than I do a player that really can affect the game on the offensive end. And that, that can come. She's still 23. You know, there's plenty of time to do that. 42:20 Um, but behind her, you know, Victoria Vivians, Sammy Whitcomb, you know, I, there's, there's not a lot- Mm... there in terms of offensive firepower at the guard spot with Jewel Lloyd gone. 42:31 I think you can maybe fill that in free agency with a couple of good moves. You know, Vivians is a free agent, and I think they'll probably let her walk. She's I think 36. She's out there. Yeah. 42:40 Yeah.I, I up there in age for, for the game. [laughs] I'm, I'm 30, I can't talk shit. [laughs] Um, you know, the sweet kiss of death is coming for me too. [laughs] Skylar, you know, Skylar's 34. Um, and, and so I just-- 42:56 I, I think I've come around more on the idea of Olivia Miles at two- Mm... if Paige is gone, because it just feels like you need a centerpiece guard to usher in the Ezzie Horstin Miles- Mm-hmm... 43:11 mule corps that might come in the future here. Um, and honestly, this is what you want at pick two if you are a franchise like Seattle. 43:20 Like this is why I love this so much for them, is because they're a franchise that's a playoff plus team. Yeah. Sure. Now you add pick two, and as you said, like start a superstar ceiling and a player that could be... 43:35 That-- I mean, that the expectation is you are an all-rookie, if not rookie of the year contender immediately. Mm-hmm. That is immediate contributor- Absolutely... to a team that already is playoff plus on paper. 43:48 So I, I'm more into the idea than I was yesterday just because I, I don't-- Malonga is, I think, a bit more of a long-term project. Mm-hmm. Now, at the same time, 44:00 yes, you have Ezzie there, but I think Malonga, people don't really understand this about her. She's a three-level player. So reasonably- You can for sure have both. Yeah, like you can have both. Mm-hmm. 44:11 And Malonga can be, you know, Wemby and- Kind of be whatever you need her to be if, if it recently feels like. 44:19 To be honest, like the way we look at a Rickea Jackson, like you could tr- you could turn Malonga into that at 6'6". Mm. Like, and, and still have rim runner, shot blocker, rim protector Ezzie Magbagor at 6'4". Mm-hmm. 44:35 Rickea is the only one that I don't really... I, I'm, I'm not really sure about there, but even still I, I feel like she can kind of be under Nneka's wing there as well. Mm-hmm. 44:46 Um, as Nneka's 34, she's, you know, there, there's some stuff with her in free agency too still that, you know- For sure... continues like a little bit of unpredictability about this. 44:56 I feel like much of the conventional wisdom is she's gonna return to Seattle. Mm-hmm. But, you know, anything can happen. Um, 45:03 if she, you know, if Nneka decides to go somewhere else, I think that makes the pick a lot easier for me. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 45:09 But I'm not, I'm not, I'm not dismissing Olivia Miles out of hand in the way that I was. Mm. Um, I know you h- or like woke up this morning and feel like the Sparks didn't win this in the way that you thought anymore. 45:20 Yeah. Wh- why is that? Do you think they should've held on and, and taken Miles at two? Man, uh, so I, I didn't want to... Well, I'm, I'm... Look, here's the thing. I could gen... and I genuinely mean this, 45:33 the Oklahoma City Thunder, I, I'm, I, I'm a very... If, if you're on the NBA side, if you're a fan of the NBA, you know how the Oklahoma City Thunder have gone about their things. 45:42 I'm a, I, I am a Oklahoma City Thunder fan since the day they arrived in 2008, and I have been indoctrinated by Sam Presti, the GM of the Oklahoma City Thunder- Process, baby... who just has every... 45:55 If, if you're a fan of an NBA team, we probably own your draft pick, okay? And so the thing is for me, Kelsey Plum is a championship player for sure, no doubt. 46:08 Is she able to raise your, your championship contendership in this way, along with Rickea and Cam also doing that at the same time? And, and so it's, it's an odd thing for me where it's like I, I worry about... 46:25 I think if, uh, let's hypothetically they make to the playoffs, I think that would be very beneficial for Cam and Rickea, 100%. 46:32 But by the time that Cam and Rickea are WNBA championship contender, like you have these players on your roster, you are a contender, where is Kelsey Plum at? Mm. 46:42 And so that's my question, is if they try to speed this up too quickly in that way. 46:48 Where like if you go, if you give it maybe after this season, maybe two seasons, especially with Cam coming off the, the injury, and then you make an all-in move, I think the timeline might be a little bit clearer in that way of like, okay, we know what we have in Rickea, we know what we have in Cam, which both project to be very, very good, don't get me wrong. 47:06 I just don't know if in the span of Kelsey Plum being... Like Kelsey Plum's 30, so in, in... Like there's still several very, very, very good years of Kelsey Plum left. 47:16 Like, and you know, [chuckles] God willing, no injury or anything like that. Like everything feels like there's at least three, four years of like really good Kelsey Plum left, I feel like. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 47:28 But at what point though does not having an Olivia Miles on your team, you know, especially if Olivia goes in and just like starts killing immediately, which I, I, I feel like some of the rookies in this, uh, this season, whether it be Caitlin or, or Angel's dominance in that way, I, I... 47:43 we don't wanna get too deep into, okay, this rookie's gonna come in and make an immediate impact and, and so on and so forth. 47:49 So like you don't wanna go too far into that, but in three years' time, where would Olivia be with Rickea and Cam versus where KP would be with Olivia and Cam, is, is kinda my, my question right now. 48:01 And also I gotta see what they do with the point guard position, 'cause right now they don't really have one. 48:04 And I think there's several like moves on the, on the table, even if it's just kind of filler moves like that can aid in this. But again, I just... 48:12 And it, and it might just be being from the, the school of Sam Presti and the Oklahoma City Thunder, who have been patient, who have not gone in for the big superstar trade, who have kept their picks, have drafted really, really well, and has now built a nasty lineup of cheap players, especially before the CBA here coming for the WNBA, when you get rookie contract control over a player for a long-term period. 48:35 Kelsey Plum makes it sound like she's gonna sign with LA, but that's gonna be a fat contract on your books, which could be worth it 'cause it's Kelsey Plum, but it's still different than the rookie contract control that you would have over Olivia Miles at number two potentially. 48:47 So-I see the-- I, I completely understand how this makes the Sparks better right now, but my biggest thing is you don't wanna be stuck in the middle, and especially with some of these drafts coming up. 49:00 So it's like, if you can be, like, 49:04 okay for two more years, you know, and, and then by the time, you know, you have Olivia Miles, you have Rickea Jackson, you have Cam Brink, you have your new practice facility to help get these players in, you have free, free agent money, 49:17 I, I worry if they, they took the shot too early. And, and, and-- 'cause to me, if I have Cam Brink and Rickea Jackson, I'm really not worried about, okay, how fast can we make it to the playoffs? 49:29 I'm thinking about how can we build a championship core more so like the Aces did, frankly. Uh- Yeah... 49:35 and, and kinda stack up those picks as opposed to bring in that really big star player to be better in the immediacy. 49:42 That's where my worry is right now, is that they sped up the timeline too quick, and that Brink and Rickea's progression will, as they go up, Kelsey Plum might be on the way down in that way. 49:53 That's where my worry is right now. Okay. So on that l- on, in, in that exact vein- Mm-hmm... of one group trending up and another group trending down- Mm-hmm... 50:03 are you Miles at two for Seattle now that you've had time to think about it? I, I think I am. I, I think I am. Obviously, I know we were very exci- We were like, "Oh my God, the Chicago Sky." 50:11 Um, and I, I do think, like, you know, obviously if, if Miles goes to the Sky, that'd be fantastic. We want a fun- I really want it. I'm not gonna lie. That's where I really want her to be. 50:19 Um- I mean, you know, I get it. [laughs] But, but no, I mean, I, I honestly like... I, I think I'm, I'm a little bit closer on, on the Kiki front as well, where it's like, to me it's kind of the same concept. 50:32 You have two older aging players that presumably won't be doing this for much longer. Which one do you think would pair better with Ezzie and Jordan? 50:40 And I think there's a very easy argument to make that that's Olivia Miles, and, and I would have absolutely no problem with that. If that is where Seattle ends up taking this pick, I think that'd be r- right. 50:49 They'd be very much in the right mind to do that. I don't-- There's no issue with that. But I think you could kinda make the same argument for Kiki. 50:55 You know, if, if you're feeling okay, Nneka has one year left, two years left, maybe she gets through the CBA. 50:59 She's, uh, you know, Madam President and, and negotiates this, and then she sails off into the sunset maybe, you know? Who knows? Yeah. 51:07 And if you get that indication and you feel like Kiki Herrezon is the one to, to be your five or, or even your four next to Ezzie and, and, and feel interchangeable with that, I don't really see much of a problem with that either. 51:20 So I... 51:20 If I'm Seattle, like at this moment right now, like let's say Nneka's coming back and Skylar's coming back and you feel secure in both having two more years left, I think Olivia Miles is currently right now the pick. 51:31 'Cause Olivia Miles has only helped her stock, and I feel like Kiki's stock has dropped off just a little bit. 51:35 I'm still very, very high on her, don't get me wrong, but USC has done her no favors in that way, and I don't think that's all completely on her, uh, for that, but that's a completely different conversation. 51:46 Um, but to me, I'm still going Olivia Miles, but at the same time, if they go Kiki, I wouldn't like... 51:54 Like I, I kinda suggested the, the Sky pick on, on Twitter, and people were like, "Well, there's no way Seattle passes on Olivia." I, I don't think it's that absolute. 52:02 Like, I think Olivia Miles is the favorite right now, but I don't feel like it's that absolute that they don't go Kiki at, at two in this way. Isn't it weird how USC is 18 and one, and their last loss was in November? 52:20 And it just doesn't feel great? [scoffs] And, yeah. Like, and, you know, Kiki averages like 17 and eight- Mm... and we just are like, "Eh," but like are they really that good? And like- Mm-hmm... 52:33 they've beaten Yukon, they've beaten Michigan, they've beaten Maryland. [chuckles] And, and we're still sitting here going, "Ugh." Vibe just, I don't know, man. 52:40 I don't- Like it leads to the point, you know, and I know 'cause this was gonna be our last piece, of like who has the most important February ahead. Yeah. And like, 52:52 golly, I, I like, I know our picks were different, um, but boy, it... I, I don't, I don't know if I'm putting an overt amount of pressure on USC to show me something. Hmm. You know? 53:08 I, I, I wonder if on some level are, are we doing what we de- Well, no, we weren't, because last year South Carolina vaporized fucking everybody. Yeah. You know? I see. So like it's not even not the same. 53:21 I, I, I- But I, I can't find- Yeah. I think for me what it is, honestly, like, like- Yeah... I kinda get what you're getting at, where it's just like, w- why are we not moved? 53:29 I honestly just think, I thought this was gonna look so much smoother, um, in-- when you have- Mm-hmm. When you put Juju Watkins with Kiki Herrezon, th- this should be pretty simple to figure out in my head. 53:41 Like [chuckles] especially, you know, if you're running this, this kind of more pro-style offense, run a pick and roll, spread the floor, and let your, you let, you let your stars be stars, you know, in kind of that way. 53:51 And I just feel like because of how hard it seemed at times for USC, I feel like that's what has, has been the struggle for me to like really feel moved by it. 54:01 'Cause even though like I, I feel like they're getting by on their star power, and when you match up with other star power, like in these Battle of LA games, I don't know if the functionality is there right now to, to get you above these teams that also have the star power that, that you have in that way and can match it. 54:18 I think that's what has left me a, a little bit hungry for more when it comes to, to USC. Yeah. It's just weird, like, you know, 'cause, 'cause even in the counting stats, they look fine. Mm-hmm. You know? As, as a team, 54:33 you know, they, they're a top 20 unit in assists per game as a team. That-- They're better than Tennessee and better than South Carolina in that respect, better than Texas. 54:43 Like, they're right in a, in a realm that has, I guess among, you know, the, the top-end teams, like they're in a realm with Kentucky, Vanderbilt, um, you know, the topThe top four here is K State, Oklahoma, UConn, UCLA, to give you an idea of- Yeah... 54:59 of what that is. But, like, it's just so, it's so weird. Mm-hmm. It's so weird to me. But [coughs] excuse me. I, I would argue, you know, USC and O-Uh, Ohio State was my initial pick for this- Mm-hmm... 55:14 because I think Ohio State, they haven't really, they haven't gotten the best of everyone yet. They played Maryland and they beat them 74-66. Um, I don't really think Michigan is a top 25 unit. 55:28 I think they've been a little over, uh- Agreed... ranked for most of this year. And through no fault of their own, that Ohio State's real only major win to this point is Maryland. Mm-hmm. 55:37 You know, they beat Illinois when they were ranked, they beat Michigan when they were ranked, but that's really it. Their non-con didn't have anybody remarkable. They beat Stanford, who hasn't proven to be great. Mm-hmm. 55:46 They beat Oregon by nine, who has proven to be solid. Um, lost to Penn State by three, but now you get UCLA and USC on the road. 55:55 You still have Indiana on the road, who's tough in Bloomington, Michigan State, Maryland one more time. I think USC, to me, they have the floor of an Elite Eight team. Mm-hmm. 56:07 And I think why I'm not super worried about what they are is because of that. Mm-hmm. I think I'm a little worried about what you are as a national title contender, which is what we thought you were. Mm-hmm. 56:16 And at 18 and one and eight and O in the Big 10, you still probably are. I guess we just kinda don't know to what degree that is. [chuckles] Yeah, right. 56:25 But Ohio State, for us to know whether, whether or not this is a mirage or this is legit, and I think it's legit. I love this team. I love the pieces. I love what they have. I love their guards. 56:35 I think Jelani Cambridge is the most under-discussed freshman in America right now. Mm-hmm. But we don't know anything about you yet. 56:43 You know, you got Maryland, sure, but we don't know anything else about you relative to your schedule, and those four top 15, top 16 teams are gonna tell us a lot about just how good you are- Mm-hmm... or might be. 56:56 Mm-hmm. So Ohio State, U- USC is, is on that page, but I think Ohio State has a massive February to prove something to us- Yeah... 57:05 about whether or not they are a team that when you fill out your brackets come March, you feel good about putting them in an Elite Eight spot- Mm-hmm... as opposed to being like, "Oh, that's the 2C. 57:16 That's 100% gonna get upset again," you know? Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm with you. I mean, to your point, they haven't played anyone great. I, I still worry about the size component for Ohio State, like just- Mm-hmm... 57:25 w- if they can handle it, frankly. Um, that's kind of what came into play a little bit against Penn State in their, in their lone loss. 57:31 Um, I, I know for me when we, we were discussing this, I had a couple teams that kind of immediately popped into my head just to rattle them off real quick before getting to my, my official pick. 57:39 Kansas State immediately came to mind. Um, obviously Ayoka Lee goes down, uh, and it's kind of this February kind of becomes like, "O- okay, n- now what?" 57:49 You know, for Kansas State, whether, you know, just trying to stay atop the Big 12 i- in that way. You have TCU coming up, like, I, I think like this week or something. 57:55 It might even be before February, uh, they play TCU. So, like, this lead u- lead up into February, uh, you know, as, as we're recording this, is, is also massive. 58:04 Um, UConn is another massive team in, in February 'cause you didn't win any of those big non-conference match-ups against big teams, but now you got Tennessee and South Carolina this month. 58:14 And so it's like if you're, if you're really trying to, you know, set your place in stone when it comes to your seeding in the NCAA tournament, these are your games 'cause the Big East really isn't moving anybody. 58:25 Um, and I, I think Creighton maybe received votes in, in the top 25. Yeah, they're in there. They're in there. But, but like, but like- They're top 25 to 30. 58:33 But like regardless, Creighton isn't moving you up in, in seeding, right? So if you go and, and, it... 58:40 The Tennessee game a- and South Carolina game are, are obviously two very different tiers of game, both on the road as well, which is a major component of this. 58:47 But if you go and beat Tennessee, that still feels like a really great win. We always talk about them [chuckles] all, even with the losses. Yeah. Like we, we feel very good about Tennessee. 58:54 I feel like the eye test on Tennessee is still very good, and you will be rewarded for beating Tennessee on the road. 59:00 South Carolina, obviously, if you go and beat South Carolina on the road, man, you're, you're in a completely different echelon than we maybe had even been talking about you in. Um, yes. 59:09 So the two major games for UConn that way, but my pick is Texas. And, and kinda a, a, a similar point to what you were getting at with Ohio State, their wins 59:20 a- and, and like who they've played so far haven't been that great, um, to be honest with you. You have a, a frankly pretty weak non-conference. Um- Mm-hmm... 59:31 uh, you, you, you beat West Virginia, who has been a little bit underperforming for where I had, you know, kind of hoped for West Virginia a little bit. They're still ranked. They're still a, a good team. 59:40 That is still a good win. That was over the, the Thanksgiving break. Um, and so if it was, if you're [chuckles] it was on FloHoops in case you missed it. Um, [laughs] 59:48 but so like you, you beat them and that was a close game. That's a good win, but not a great win in that way. Um, you lose to Notre Dame at Notre Dame. I, I mean, I feel like everyone had eyes on that game. 59:57 That was a very, very good close game. You got Hannah Hidalgo. It happens to the best of us. Um, but then you go from there, and it's like you beat Oklahoma on the road. I was there at that game. 1:00:08 That game was nasty, but you pull out a win. Like that was, like there was like 54 made shots, 53 fouls or something like that in that game. It was disgusting. Um- Yeah... but you pull it out. 1:00:18 You do what you gotta do, right? Then, uh, the South Carolina game happens. Obliterated, frankly. Uh, just- Yep... I mean, completely shook on, on the CLA floor. 1:00:31 Um, I mean, Madison Booker has the worst game of her college career, frank- just to, to be frank about it. Yep. Um, you, you beat, uh, Alabama right before that in a blowout as well. 1:00:39 It's like that's another good win, but not great win. You play Maryland, you smoke Maryland, but it's a hobbled Maryland, you know? 1:00:45 And, and, and then you get to Tennessee, you, you, you win close at home against Tennessee, which again, good win, not a great win. 1:00:54 They're, they're really itching for that great win that when you're thinking about a top seven at worst team, like they're, they're currently ranked number fiveSo this upcoming February, you have Vanderbilt at home, South Carolina at home, at Kentucky, and then you host LSU. 1:01:11 All four in a row, four ranked teams. I like that. We're about to learn about Texas. Mm-hmm. Like, I don't, I, we, I don't know what we're working with here, frankly. 1:01:20 'Cause some of these games have not been very inspiring, frankly, with, with, with Texas. Like, there's, there's been some, some games just the offense, like, [sighs] I don't know, man. 1:01:29 You know, and it, it's, it's the Texas worry. I mean, this isn't really anything new with Texas in this way. Like, you know to a point what you're getting in Texas. 1:01:37 The idea is Madison Booker is the relief for the cons of a Vic Schaefer Texas team. Yeah. And so, I, I mean, especially that South Carolina game, like, how does Madison Booker respond? 1:01:50 Obviously on her home court now, presumably, you know, like, a, a little bit better suited for, for the moment of this game, just as the whole team... 'cause the whole team looked shook in that game. 1:01:58 The missed layups, obviously Madison Booker struggled. I don't wanna just put it on Booker 'cause the whole team just looked shook in that game at CLA. 1:02:06 I think that'll be a massive one to see what this Texas team is truly made of in that way. Like, if, if even if they can just keep it close and, like, make it be a, a nail biter of a game. 1:02:18 Like, obviously you wanna win no moral victories, but, like, the, it's, it's kind of hard to shake the taste out of that South Carolina game, uh, out of my mouth right now until- No... until they prove it otherwise. 1:02:28 So, like, Vanderbilt would be a, a good win right now. But that South Carolina game, that second game of kind of their own ranked gauntlet is, is obviously the biggest game on anyone's SEC schedule. Yep. 1:02:38 Um, so you have South Carolina, you have LSU at home. You've gotta go away with at least one of those. Agree. At, at least. Agree. 1:02:44 You know, unless we're gonna be having completely different conversations about Texas if not. Yep. I 100% agree. And the last dark horse before we go, um, Oregon. Mm. Four, four major games. 1:02:56 Michigan State, Michigan, UCLA, um, and then they got one other, uh, big one in there too. I wanna say Maryland, but I'm not positive. Ei-either way, I mean, it's, it's four top 25, pseudo top 30 opponents. 1:03:13 Oregon and, and the eight teams- Mm... in the middle of the Big Ten that start up at Maryland and ends down, you know, by like Indiana-ish is separated by a game and a half. Mm-hmm. 1:03:23 It's like six and three at the top end- I see... and four and four at the bottom end. And, and so that log jam, if you're Oregon, you gotta win games here, man. Mm-hmm. Like big, big games. 1:03:32 Um, they for the most part have beaten the teams they've needed to. They got a great early season non-con against Baylor that's bolstering their resume heavy right now. Mm-hmm. 1:03:41 But if you wanna get up off that eight, nine, seven, 10 seed line and get into like a six, you gotta win two of these games here. Um, Deja Kelly has been really good for them. The shooting has still been inefficient. 1:03:55 Mm-hmm. This is not your older brother's Oregon team- Mm-hmm... or your older sister's Oregon team. Like, they win defensively and, uh, they win in kind of like a gnarly way, especially in Big Ten play. Mm-hmm. 1:04:06 Like, this is not 79 to 77 games the way we're used to watching Oregon play. Like, they beat Iowa 50 to 49. Yeah. You know? So, um, it's a very different look. 1:04:18 But if they manage to get out of a couple of these games with wins over, over ranked teams and teams that they on paper should not be beating, that's gonna tell me a lot about who they are and what their viability is come March, because this is a very big year for Oregon to reestablish that they're going to be okay long term under Kelly Graves. 1:04:37 And at 15 and five and six and three in the Big Ten, they've done a great job of proving that there's at least some level of stabilization here that they can get. What more can you show me now? Mm-hmm. 1:04:48 Are you more than a first-round team with what you have? I think they've got potential, but you gotta win it on the floor before we start putting you into that tier. Yep. I'm with you. 1:04:59 Look, February's about to be c-crazy. There's some big-time matchups. People, I mean, this is truly, like, all wins count the same, but recen-recency bias is a very real thing. Mm-hmm. 1:05:10 And so if you are looking to make your claim as to why you should be at X seed in the NCAA tournament, it starts now. 1:05:19 Going into, going into February, and then obviously into conference tournaments and things of that nature, like, this is, this is where the money is made. So I, I'm very excited. I, I, I really, really am. 1:05:30 Whether it be the Battle of LAs, the Texas home games, like, I know we're, [chuckles] we're aiming to have some boots on the ground, uh, uh, across February. February's gonna be a big month all around. 1:05:41 Big month for No Cap Space too. We'll, we'll just, we'll... if you, if you made it to the end of Ball Up Top, that's your little, that's your little nugget. 1:05:47 February is a big month for No Cap Space, and that's where we'll leave it at for now. But thank y'all for watching. Thank y'all for listening to the Ball Up Top, the weekly podcast from No Cap Space. 1:05:57 Make sure if you're on the podcast platforms, you're hitting the five stars, you're rating, you're reviewing, you're sharing, you're adding, all of that stuff that you do on your favorite podcast platform. 1:06:06 If you're watching here on YouTube and you're getting the segments, subscribe, like, share. nocapspacewbb.com is where you can find everything No Cap Space. Our print content has been... we've been firing it out. 1:06:18 We- the YouTube content, we're firing it out. Make sure you're subscribed everywhere so you don't miss it. Uh, and go get your home field. March Madness is on the way. Be ready, be prepared, and we'll see you next time.
