Transcript 0:01 [upbeat music] What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the No Cats Faced post game show. 0:19 Tyler, Andrew Greer, um, what a day it's been. Late night. It's, yeah, what a, what a day it's been. Um, but I, I can't help but notice, Greer, that's a, that's a cool shirt you got on. 0:33 Beautiful shirt I've got on, folks. Hey, Greer- Beautiful shirt... where did you get that shirt? Home Field Apparel. Wow. 0:42 You mean you can use code nocap15 with the description, i- in the description down below to get your first order 15% off on something cool like that? Is that, is that what you're telling me right now? 0:54 It's definitely- Wow... one of the coolest things they've got on their site. No, no, no question. Well, in, in honor of your shirt, let's talk about two Huskies that ha- were, were, were in it tonight. 1:07 Uh, obviously, Diana Taurasi, um, if this is it, I- if this is it- Job well done. Job well done... like, like, like- If this is it, job well done... like, like Greer, what are... 1:19 I know you've kinda processed your, your DT feelings, uh, you know, to, uh, to the, to this point, but if this is it, how, what are, what are the vibes right now, guy? How, how is, what are, what are, what are- Triumph. 1:31 Triumph most of all. Um, you know, this is obviously a player who at 43 years, like still could clearly play in this league. Yeah. Yeah. So, love to see people going out the way that they want to go out, right? 1:47 And I could imagine that, you know, the daily grind of being a professional athlete just isn't all that appealing anymore, and I think that is why, if this is it, that's why it's it. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. 1:57 And just like that grind, you know, Phoenix did the practice court thing for her, um, around All-Star break. Um, you know, she had a vintage performance in game one versus Minnesota. 2:10 Tonight, started out hot, faded as the game went. Uh, but you know, there was a point in the game where they pulled up just the stats that she leads or is top five in the WNBA. Yeah. 2:22 Like almost every consequential stat, she is in the record books. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I have thoroughly enjoyed every moment of her career over the last, for me personally, 20, 2:39 uh, oof, I'm telling my own age. Damn. [laughs] Exactly. Um, but yeah, I enjoyed every moment of it. 2:46 Um, she's the ki- she's a one in a, one in, once in a lifetime kind of player, like a person who just makes you feel something every time she steps on the court. Yeah. Yeah. Job well done. Well earned. Mm-hmm. 100%. 3:01 DT was one of the first people to get me into women's basketball. Um, growing up in Westchester County, New York, 3:09 UConn obviously for us, you know, it was them and Carmelo Anthony's Syracuse, and then you were super tapped into, uh, New York City high school basketball where I am from, right? 3:21 It's like Mount Vernon, Christ the King, Bryce, et cetera. And 3:26 the first of two athletes to break containment on the women's basketball side in the early 2000s were DT and Lisa Leslie, and I remember that that was the first person that I saw that I was like, "I want to watch her play basketball." 3:43 And as that name became synonymous with the W and also with UConn, it made something 3:53 more meaningful I think, um, when Saniya Chong, who is like five minutes away from me in Ossining, gets recruited by, by UConn and, and I'm in high school at the time that Saniya is, and it's like wow, like Diana Taurasi's UConn is recruiting somebody out of Westchester County like this, out of Section 1. 4:12 Um, and it's those little things, right? That when we, when we talk about transformative, transcendent players, like it really just does come down to that. Like, can you get individuals into the game? 4:27 Um, what they do when they get here, as we've seen this year, is kind of up to them and their level of personal decorum. 4:34 Um, but the fact that she I think, you know, in light of the ESPN, uh, the story about ESPN that came out of Mark Shapiro in the early 2000s vocally being against putting the WNBA on ESPN and put it on ESPN2- Mm-hmm... 4:49 and really set back the growth of the league at that time. She I think along with that crew in the early 2000s really were the first group of rookies that came in and kind of saved the league. 5:00 And, and what we're seeing now, not just with Caitlin and Angel, but soon with Paige and Juju and Jazzie Davidson and all of them, 5:10 that was a groundwork that I think started in those early 2000s with those classes and, and really pushed along by DT and Candace that got the sport back on the right footing despite the best efforts of some older, more crotchety white males. 5:26 Um, that in itself is a legacy before we even get to the stuff on the court. Yeah. And so that's kind of the cool thing. 5:33 Um, I wish her and Candace would be a little bit more interested in the idea of a send-off, because I think as we talk about the W's history and its issues with storytelling its own history and- Yeah... 5:47 charading its own history properly, I do w- wish that they had a little bit more interest in the spotlight so we could at least kind of browbeat the W into learning how to properly do this. 5:58 Um, but if this is how they wanna do it, if this is it-It's the definition of doing it on your own terms. Yeah. And, and that's who she's always been. Give it up for my dog. Claps up for, uh- She's a blast... 6:12 for Diana Taurasi. And I'll say, like, I have not been on the gatekeeper shit at all this season. 6:16 I love all of the new energy around the W and women's basketball, but I will say, baby, I've been in the trenches searching for EuroLeague box scores- [laughs]... 6:28 when, like, just trying to keep up with her career, right? Yeah. When she's overseas for months at a time, you know, fucking reading articles, like transcribing articles in French, Russian- [laughs]... 6:42 just to figure out like- Yeah... what she was up to because the WNBA's only five months. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so like the... 6:53 Yeah, I just, I, I applaud like just her level of commitment to the game because it hasn't been easy. When they were locked away in Siberia winning Russian titles and nobody knew a fucking thing about it. 7:05 You know what I mean? Like- Mm... that just goes to show like how much... And I just, you could never question how much she loves the game. Yeah. 7:13 And that's what resonates with me the most is like I feel like she has given everything she's got to women's basketball. Yeah. I'm with you. Nike said you can't raise the bar without raising a little hell. 7:27 She raised a lot of hell. She was one of the shake the table OGs, man. She, she was raising, raising hell. And speaking of people who have people in hell, Napheesa Collier tonight. 7:36 Uh- Talk about a UConn passing of the torch this season. Come on, man Good God. Uh, 42 points tying... Breanna Stewart. [laughs] There's a lot of Hu- lot of Huskies going on and, and Angel McCoughtry. Blue shirt. 7:50 Blue shirt. Blue shirt. No Cathy teen. [coughs] Um, but uh, I mean, what Phee has been able to do just in, in these first two games alone, like not even talking about the grander season that she's had, has been insane. 8:02 Like [laughs] the, the scoring that she's been able to do is like... I, um, I was scrolling the timeline, there's like six different records that she's broken w- within this like first round stretch of games. Um, 8:15 f- I think for me what's most impressive is it's never seem, it never seems hard. It seems very easy for Phee. 8:22 Like you, you just kind of get the ball in her hands and she has three moves on deck ready to go, and it's, it's never feels spi- it's like sped up. It never feels... 8:30 It, it, it just, it never feels like it's difficult for her, and it certainly didn't in, in these two games. Um, like I said, 42 points is ridiculous. 8:40 She missed a free throw, which she has been shooting so great from the free throw line, she misses the free throw to, to, to break the record and get 43. 8:46 Um, but for y'all, uh, Gray, if you wanna start like for, for this game with, with Minnesota, like whether it's Phee specifically or just Minnesota as a whole, like 8:56 I, I, I think we've talked about what makes them special, but what, what kind of stood out from, from this game for you? Yeah. 9:02 Uh, well, I think they also said something like Phee has the most points over a two game span ever. Yeah, it was... Yeah. At, at the, and the closest is not close. Like- Yeah... [laughs] like whatever. 9:12 I forget the number, but it wasn't, it wasn't close. 9:15 So just a, just a cool little thing, but again, another game where it just feels like, yes, of course on the box score she ends with 42, but everybody's just doing something to contribute. Yes. 9:27 Everybody's just doing something, uh, playing really good defense. It seemed like they were going to allow BG to do her thing tonight, but they were really keyed in on everyone else, right? Yeah. 9:38 They don't want Cloud to have the same game that she had in game one, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Uh, which ended up making that game a little bit more competitive than they probably wished for, you know? 9:47 Um, but you know, this is a t- they got, they have bigger, they have their eyes set on bigger things, and Phoenix was small time. You know what I mean? Yeah. 9:56 Like, they know that they gotta gear up for Connecticut and then they, hopefully the eventual winner of, of Las Vegas and New York. So, um, they just looked like a team. 10:06 Cheryl called a timeout early in the first quarter when they were- Mm-hmm... kind of like creating buckets, not able to get stops, right? And then after that, really, it was all Minnesota after that pretty much. Yeah. 10:16 Um, so you know, I know we talked last night about Las Vegas being a team that could flip the switch. I think Minnesota is similar, but in a different way where like- I know what, I know what you're saying. 10:30 Like it's- They have a, they have a championship gear, if that's like a different way of framing it. 10:36 I, I think I look at switch as something that you can only obtain if you are like a past title winner or a repeat title winner, because it's like- Fair... 10:46 you, you know you can just kind of wake up and do it because you've done it. 10:50 I do think that the thing you have to have before that is the championship gear, which I think the Lynx have exhibited, which is basically like, "All right, stop playing." Yeah. Yeah. 11:03 And then you go out and beat the living- It's sitting up in the seat. Like it's just, it's- Like that's... Yeah. Like they have that- It's sitting up in the seat... Vegas has that. 11:08 I think, um, I think the Liberty have the championship gear this year, um, remains to be seen, but it'll make for some good s- for some good stuff. Um- Mm-hmm. Good dialogue. 11:21 Yeah, I mean, I mean, what else can you say about Phee at this point? I mean- Yeah... I think it would be hilarious if, if this turned out to be like revenge tour for not getting at least one first place, uh, MVP vote. 11:31 [laughs] Like it, it's like the fun house mirror version of the fourth vote. Doing the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Um, but no, I mean, 11:38 l- like we've been saying all year, like if A'ja Wilson doesn't put together the greatest WNBA season of all time, like we're talking about her in the MVP tier, right? Like this is an MVP season. 11:49 She just ended up against a GOAT season. Um, but she has everything that A'ja does, man. I mean, like she, she has incredible footwork, these step-throughs, good touch. She can shoot from three. 12:03 She's al- she's, she wipes you out defensively.Her ability to space and move and be versatile offensively- Mm-hmm... opens up all of these lanes. It's just all offense. Yep. Super team play. And, emphasis on that. 12:15 Like, that kind of goes into what I was saying before, the ease of it, a lot of it is the patience aspect of it. Yeah. And like- Not getting fed up. Nobody's- No, never. Never. Yeah. 12:24 Like, the, the ease with which she plays, like it is n- on the floor. Mm-hmm. Um, and, and you saw it here. Now granted, like the Mercury are a team that give up a lot of points. Like- Right... 12:33 the, we've seen this all year with them. They're very much like a hodgepodge in terms of like their roster construction. And, uh- Mm-hmm... 12:40 as Ari points out in chat here, Ka Copper is just kind of had a weird, this has been a really weird season for Kahleah Copper. 12:48 Um, 'cause it felt like she was gonna make that All-W First Team run like a month and a half into the season, and then it just all kind of fell apart a little bit. Mm-hmm. Um, so I, 12:59 I, I think we're gonna see some changes in Phoenix. I'm just kind of curious what it's gonna be. As for the Lynx, I mean, this and the Sun's gonna be a great match-up. Like, I know- Yep... 13:09 that there was a desire for Lynx Fever, and we'll get to Fever Sun in just a minute, but the Lynx were a terrible match-up for the Fever. That shit would've been over in- They would've... Yeah, yeah... 13:19 like they didn't beat them all year, and the Lynx really didn't put... Yeah. Like they didn't give them- They would've gotten pri- pretty quickly... all on this season. 13:26 I wanna see the Sun, who have a great defense, great back court defenders, especially with the way that Courtney Williams and Kayla McBride move around the floor. Mm-hmm. And, you know, AT's physical. We know this. 13:38 Like, they're gonna muck it up, and like- Yeah... the, and, and the Lynx like to play open. And as we saw in this past series with the Sun and the Fever, the Sun can suffocate you. 13:48 And now they have a person that can get you the clutch bucket when you need it, if it's not Juwana Bonner. Yep. So that to me is this- I'm, I'm intrigued. I'm, I'm excited... 14:00 I know a lot of people wanted to see the storyline of Caitlin Clark and, and if she could do this in year one. 14:06 These are the best four teams in the league, and this, these are gonna be the best semifinals that we're gonna have in quite a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, 100%. 14:17 I think the biggest thing for me with the Lynx is that the, the habits that they have 14:24 are like, as a team, like collectively, when it comes to just the flow on offense, the ability to, to move the ball, like it's just one of the most fluid teams I feel like I've seen. Mm-hmm. 14:33 Like, in, in a very long time. Like, and, and like I, I can't get over like what the projection of this team was to begin this season. 14:41 Like they could, they were a fringe playoff team in a lot of the preseason polls and, and everything, and like 14:47 to, to go from that to where we are now and the way we're talking about them is based on those habits and the foundation that they've been able to build, and what they just consistently do. 14:56 And no matter what the score or the momentum of, of the game is, they just always seem to rely on those habits. 15:04 And tha- those are the type of things I trust when I'm like, "Okay, this is a title favorite," it's habits, and, and what do you do consistently? And they do all the good things consistently. 15:12 And, and very rarely do they make mistakes on a consistent basis. So I mean, I, I'm, I'm all in on the Lynx, frankly. I, I'm, whether, you have the MB- MVP performer, you have the defense, you have the ball movement. 15:25 Like, it's, it's all, this is a championship team right there. [laughs] Like, it, it truly is. Um, for Phoenix, though, and, and, and we can kinda move on to, to the other game. Mm-hmm. This is a weird season. 15:37 Uh- Super weird... in, in the sense of kinda similar almost to what we were talking about with Seattle last night, where it's like you built this team for now, like for, for, for this time. 15:45 Like, it was never about the regular season for this team. Um, yet similar to Seattle, you have the same outcome of, of going out in the first round not picking up a playoff win. 15:56 Obviously we don't know really what DT exactly has going on. Um, I mean, it, it's just they're in a weird spot now that I don't, I don't really know where they go from here. 16:06 Obviously you still have talent on the roster going into next season, but like it's, it's just a, it's a weird... It, it feels, it definitely feels worse than Seattle, like 100%. 16:15 And- What's weird is like their vibes feel somewhat better. [laughs] Like that's- Well, in, in the X interviews it does kinda seem like that, yeah. 16:22 [laughs] Yeah, like that might be the weirdest thing about Phoenix is like on paper, like the vibes are supposed to suck. Yeah. Like Cloud, Copper, Sophie, DT, BG. That sounds like the exact- Nightmare blunt rotation... 16:39 deadass. [laughs] It is genuinely. It is genuinely the nightmare blunt rotation. And somehow, I mean, maybe they all just have like the right amount of asshole that like they all enjoy each other and like- Mm-hmm... 16:53 can see themselves in the other in that way. Um, but they seem to believe that they're gonna get it right, at least that's kind of the vibe that they've- Mm-hmm... given through a lot of these post-game pressers. 17:06 Natasha Cloud has given major endorsements of Nate Tibbetts. Um, I don't know about Tibbetts still, honestly. 17:14 Um, but I, I think I'm curious to see what they decide to do to augment this roster, because I don't think it's at the guard spots anymore that they gotta build out. 17:25 I, I think you need to get Natasha Mack with, with the skills trainer on the offensive end. I think she has a good motor, I think she's a really good de- uh, defensive player. Mm-hmm. 17:34 But you need a little bit more on her on the other end. Um, BG's getting up there, and our critique of BG has always been it waxes and wanes in terms of her dominance and when she chooses to assert. 17:45 This has been a really weird year for Kahleah Copper, and I wonder if DT's retirement may open up some shots and open- I was kinda thinking, I was kinda thinking along that line... 17:52 I, I, I feel like there's a little bit of like I don't know what to do here when- Mm-hmm... I'm usually the person that shoots a ton. Um, and then Natasha Cloud's just like low-key been a revelation. 18:00 Like this entire year. [laughs] She's been great. No, like she's, she's been really, really good. Um, yeah, so, so I th-I'm not... 18:09 Weirdly enough, I think it's a worse roster from a talent perspective, but I feel like the vibes are slightly better than Seattle, that maybe this might actually end up working out in the long term. Yeah. I don't know. 18:21 Just kind of feels that way. Yeah. It- Yeah. I mean, well look, they were plus 10 in the win column this year. 18:26 So, like, I know we gave Coach Triplets a lot of shit this year, and deservedly so, 'cause like, you know, he's a man. Um- [laughs] But, like- A white man. No. 18:39 [laughs] But, I mean, they kinda did turn things around, right? Yeah. Uh, last year was abysmal. You know what I mean? Um, obviously they are, they will, I think, continue to be a destination for free agents- Mm-hmm... 18:54 because they have all the accoutrements that you need to be a- The, the, the facility's so nice. We got to go see it when that was- You know what I think? So-... happening on tour. It's, it's legit. Yeah. 19:03 Um, so I think that they, you know, I don't think Matt Ishbia, when you talk about the owners, I like, I just don't think that that... I don't think they're gonna, um, like, fade into obscurity. You know what I mean? 19:14 Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that that's what they're about. Um, right, they brought over guys that had previously worked in the NBA and stuff like that. Um, Tibbetts, I, you know, if he's the... 19:24 I don't know for sure that he's like the long-term guy, but the person sitting next to him on the bench is Kristi Toliver. So like, I still feel pretty good about- Mm-hmm... what they've got going on- Mm-hmm... 19:36 in just in the facility. Um, Cobb, remember, was injured at the end of the regular season. Yeah, true. It's a back thing. She just turned 30. Um, backs are finicky with like, I know she's out there 19:52 clearly not moving the way she was moving at the early part of the season. Went over, I mean, played in the Olympics and all that. 19:58 So I think this season, this is a big part of the reason why she's on this team anyway, right? Is to be at a place that has top-tier facilities, top-tier medical- Mm-hmm... 20:06 and who can really treat her like the, the future star player. The opposite of Chicago. [laughs] You know? And try to- Yeah... get the most out of the rest of her career. 20:14 So I, I think Cobb and, um, and Cloud, I think they'll be there next year. Yeah. I... 20:21 BG, like, I think she'll be there in the sense that like the CBA is changing or whatever g- uh, being updated, upgraded, and there's just, the players just stand to make a lot more money. 20:33 And I don't think she wants to leave before she gets that windfall. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. For sure. Um, so I, I anticipate her being back in Phoenix as well, but it'll be interesting to see 20:45 what else they can do. Yeah. For sure. Uh, but I, I would say like, all in all, you know, um, you sent your, your GOAT out the right way. 20:54 You know, I, I'd still give them like a, a B- on the season or something like that. Like- That's fair. That's fair... you know, you're, you're, you, you're, you weren't the favorite in the series. No, no. Not even close. 21:05 No. You know what I'm saying? 21:05 No one, I don't think anyone was expecting you guys to beat the Minnesota Lynx, as the, the- I think the l- I, I think it's slightly disappointing, just like relative to what they look like on paper and what we thought the expectation could've been going into the year, but- 21:19 Yeah... stay lovely. Yeah. We'll see you next year. Right. If this was it, salute. DT, salute. Um, hey, I'll tell you [laughs] what- Salud. Salud. Salud. You're right. Health. That's on me. That's on me. All I know, 21:34 I'm surprised Shawnie isn't here for this send-off. Um, [laughs] but, um- Nah, read her, her five out about DT, 'cause- Yeah... obviously she talks a ton of shit about my GOAT, but she knows the rent. Deep down. 21:47 And, and- Deep down... DT was her original favorite player, so- Yeah... fuck everything else she says. [laughs] She knows well, and she knows- Yeah... where the bread is buttered. Yeah. 21:59 Well, speaking of where the bread is buttered, um, one per, one, o- o- a little bit less butter going in the rest of the way. Um- Margarine... uh, yeah. Uh, the Indiana Fever have been eliminated. 22:13 Uh, fade away like America's Next Top Model. Um, and we are, we, it, this was a hell of a game, first off. Just chaotic throughout the entire- Oh, the week entire way... the entire way. From beginning. Um, yeah. 22:28 I, I, I wanna talk about the end of the game, but we can do general thoughts first, but specifically the last two minutes, and I think y'all know what I'm talking about here. Um, we will talk about that. 22:38 But first off, general thoughts on, uh, uh, this game, and then we can get into the very ending and the way the Fever handled the end of this game. Okay. 22:48 First and foremost, if we're on the live, and I know we're doing late night, so everyone in here is, is, you know, pretty cool. Y'all are m- mostly regulars I'm guessing. 22:58 But for anybody that comments in the captions after, if you see the replay, be easy on Kelsey Mitchell. Let's be respectful in here about who we're talking about, just 'cause 23:09 i- i- I feel like it is important to say that given what the night's discourse has turned into. Yes. But- And we'll get into that as well, but yes... but like this, this is no caps space. We do not sugarcoat. 23:19 We will talk about play, good, bad, or ugly. But we will do so in the ethically hating, respectful way, and we would ask that y'all do the same. Mm-hmm. With that said, 23:32 Stephanie White coached her ass off this series, boys. Yes. God damn, the defensive plan for this Fever team was sensational. 23:43 Now, were the early whistles at the start of this game a little ticky-tack and a little bit slanted one-sided? Sure. But you know what? That's to be expected on the road. 23:56 There's a famous quote, I think it was Jimmy Johnson, that said it for the University of Miami after they lost to Notre Dame, "You don't go to South Bend and leave the game in the officials' hands." 24:07 And that is kind of, whenever I, I come across a game where the officiating looks like it's stilted toward the home team, I remember that quotePlay well enough that they can't do anything about it. 24:17 And I know that that situation is a little bit different in football than basketball, but the principle still applies because at the end of the day, the Fever were leading by one with like three minutes to go- Mm-hmm... 24:27 in the fourth quarter. Like, they clearly overcame. Now, I think that the Sun are... This to me, and the reason that I kind of wanted to 24:38 get the respect component here is because I wanted to open up this piece of discourse without us getting into weird territory of like coded and worse shit, right? This to me was like late '80s Pistons and Jordan Bulls. 24:53 It wasn't necessarily the Caitlin Clark rules, but this to me felt so much like the way when you go back into Last Dance, when you go back into Bad Boys, when you go and actually watch the games themselves, it's very reminiscent of what the '80s Bad Boy Pistons did to Jordan's Bulls while Jordan was on the way up. 25:13 It was like, "Here's this kid. He's small. We are going to just physical the fuck out of him. 25:20 And we are gonna bully ball, and we're gonna play the way we play and impose our will, and he is not old enough to do that, nor are his teammates." 25:29 And, you know, the following year, Jordan gets a little bit better, but they still come up short. 25:35 And then the third time through, Scottie Pippen shows up, and, you know, Scottie has now grown up, and now the Bulls start to make their run past the Pistons. That's what this felt like in so many different ways, man. 25:48 Mm-hmm. Like, this felt like AT playing the role of Rick Mahorn. Like, AB is the Pippen to, to Caitlin's Jordan here, like, where you need the Bull... 25:57 And, and throughout the game you almost saw this thing speed run slightly, where it's like they grew up in real time- Yeah... and got accustomed to the physicality and the way this game was gonna be played in real time. 26:07 Because in the first quarter it was utter chaos, and you could tell they were shook. 26:11 Like, DB lands in, uh, Caitlin's landing zone, and Caitlin, like, swipes at her, and they start talking shit, and Lexie starts talking shit to DB. A fan off the side of the court says something to Caitlin. 26:24 That leads to security coming over. Like, the... It was very clear that as crazy as the energy was on, on both ends here, like the Sun had her up here- Yeah... messed up. And, and they grew as the game went. 26:38 But this feels like the first component of that story where this is the physicality we were talking about, and a lot of people were talking about going into this season of like, is she gonna be prepared for this? 26:50 Are the Fever gonna be prepared for this? And it looked for a period like, no, they would not in game two. They grew up on the fly and almost managed to steal a second in Connecticut before going back to Gamebridge. 27:02 But to me, I think this is one of these interesting things where I would almost rather it happen this way. Give this kid a little bit of adversity, man. No reason she should come in and beat everybody up immediately. 27:13 And I, I kinda like the idea that we've got some intrigue in her story now, 'cause now she's got someone to go beat next year when the Fever are inevitably- Mm-hmm... back into the playoffs. 27:21 So, a masterclass from Stephanie White. Um, just a classic bully ball performance from AT. I've been on the record, I'm not the biggest fan of her game. 27:30 I, I thought her being All-W First Team as a pick was poll inertia a little bit given what her year was. But you know what? 27:37 Games like this, she, she comes out and says, "Even if it's bully ball, even if I'm shooting on, you know, labrums that are attached by a, a, a strand of hair, like, I can still do what I gotta do." Mm-hmm. And, um, 27:51 the Sun won the Marina Mabrey trade. That's- Yeah, they did. [laughs] Yeah. That is a parting thought before I kick it over to you guys, 'cause boy, they needed her for that one. Yeah. 28:01 Greer, what, what, what were your, your thoughts on the game? Um, I guess my main thought is like... I guess I just really wanna talk about the Fever. 28:10 Uh, Indiana, I mean, shout out to Connecticut, they, like Vegas, just made their sixth straight semifinal in the WNBA- Yeah... playoffs. So- Yeah... the consistency has been there for them, you know, all the time. 28:22 It's really about getting over the hump, simple as that. Uh, there really is not much else to talk about when it comes to them, if I'm being honest. Like- Yeah... can you do, can you do it? 28:31 We talked about Ma- we talked about Marina last, [laughs] last game. Like, we- Yeah... we, we... Like, I, I feel you. Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Can you do it? 28:38 Um, and but going back to the Fever a bit, I feel like they exceeded expectations this year. And the front- Mm... office didn't exactly know what they had in Caitlin. Mm. 28:51 Like, they knew they were getting her all season long, but all season long it felt like... 'Cause I, I definitely recall saying this in previous post games, it's just like I don't... 29:03 They didn't know how good she would be h- and how soon she would, how soon she would be good. Mm-hmm. Because if you did... 29:11 I, this is like one of just a principle I have in basketball, period, across, uh, leagues, across levels. I need vets that have played consequential basketball in the playoffs. 29:26 You can- you're not going anywhere with vets who have never played meaningful basketball. Mm-hmm. And none of the vets on the Fever have, have that kind of experience. Yeah. Um, 29:45 and that's where they fell short to me, right? Like- Mm-hmm... you see Kel- you're talking about keeping it respectful about Kelsey Mitchell. Okay, I'm gonna keep it respectful. 29:53 [laughs] Super s- super sorry her, her father died right before the season started and all that. But calling D'Angelo Russell to help you do anything when it comes to playoff basketball is fucking crazy. 30:05 [laughs] I'm a Laker fan. That's fucking crazy. The, the memes are nuts. Yeah. The memes are nuts. Uh- That man, they need to put that man on a watch list. [laughs] Do not pick up the phone. Do not pick up. 30:17 Calling D'Angelo Russell for this. You would've been better calling Tamika Catchings. You would've been better calling, um-Some other players that played in Fever, in Fever for, you know- [laughs] Anyone but Dlo. 30:30 [laughs] Anyone but Dlo. So- Dlo... just, I don't know. De- debuffering. What, was Jordan Poole not available? [laughs] You know? Like, the fuck? 30:39 But yeah, the, the, the ending from, from Kelsey, uh, if we wanna kind of get into that- That was really hard t- to- Those last two minutes you have- Let's talk about it... 30:47 it was, like, three possessions, uh, where Caitlin doesn't touch the ball. Um, a- and like, there was one of the possessions, Kelsey just kinda like full back dived, like into the paint at one point, and 31:00 it, it's just- She, well, she panicked... she panicked. Yeah. She, she shot a three. Yeah. She missed her three, ran in, and I don't know if it was... 31:09 I think it was AT in the paint, but like, she, she caught her own rebound, and instead of going in and drawing the contact- Yes... which, which she usually does- Yeah... 31:17 I, I think she was trying to go for the three instead, which like- Mm-hmm... analytics brain, man, like, fuck. Yeah. Uh, looked for wherever. 31:27 I, I'm guessing she thought Caitlin was there, and Caitlin made the right- At the top of the key, I think. Yeah... court decision. But it just... 31:33 And immediately after that, on the next two possessions, reverts back to the Kelsey Mitchell of the early year and the Kelsey Mitchell of old. Yeah. 31:42 And, and to your point, Greer, this is a player who has been a veteran in this league for a long time playing her first playoff basketball in the W, and real first consequential basketball ever. 31:55 Her Ohio State teams never got by the Sweet 16. You know? I, I- So they're at, like-... [laughs] It's not Elite Eight, Final Four, championship level basketball at either level. 32:05 So this is a new thing for her in crunch time, and you are absolutely right, you know? I, I think it was weird to youth movement this in the way it felt like the Sparks did. But like, 32:21 it, it came because, at least in my opinion, of an underestimation of what Caitlin Clark was gonna be in this league, because I would imagine the thought is, "Maybe we sneak into the eight seed. She learns on the fly. 32:32 We build around the roster now." Like, this was not the idea of like, "We're getting a first team all WNBA player immediately." No. 32:40 And I wonder if because the drafts over the last four, five years have been full of fool's gold in that way, at least early on. We talked about this with Sabrina recently. 32:49 Like, there's been so much fool's gold at the top of these drafts in the, in the last five years. I, I genuinely wonder if there was some prevailing wisdom in there like, "Oh, she's gonna be like the rest of these. 33:00 Like, she'll be good, but she won't be great immediately." And then this draft class broke the mold the, in the way that the EDD Skyler, um, and B- wait, not BG. Who the hell was the third in that draft? Oh, no. 33:12 You're right. Jess Engre. Oh, is- Jess Engre... okay. Yeah. Um, so it, like, it was... It's, it's that draft. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Um, it's a shame. Kelsey's had a phenomenal year. Yeah. You know? 33:23 Amazing, uh, push after the Olympic break. Mm-hmm. They're not in the sixth seed without her. No. 33:29 But boy, if that two-minute span is not enough to get you in the lab and ready to just take heads off next season and, and come back and do this with Caitlin, boy, I don't know what is. Yeah. 33:44 Like [laughs] I mean, the reality, like, like, look at the lineup that they closed the game with, right? Mm-hmm. Like, you started the game, Timi started the game today. Yeah, Timi Shorts over No Smith. Mm-hmm. 33:55 Over Anelisa, um, who's also still only a third-year player. Timi wasn't even in the league last year, right? 34:01 Like, um, yeah, I just think I, it, it shows how much the Indiana front office just did not think that they would be here, uh, and weren't ready to capitalize on this moment 'cause again, they just beat the Sun, like, once in the last three weeks. 34:20 You know? Yeah. On their, on their floor I believe too, in Connecticut. Mm-hmm. You know? So, um, they're, they're... They were certainly a team that was capable, but they need a, a... 34:29 Andrew, I think you'll appreciate this. They need a wartime conciliator. Like, that's just the facts. Yeah, dog, straight up. Straight up. Like, they- They need Eniola Bundoru, baby... Eniola is not it. 34:39 The veterans on their sideline are not it. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm. So, like, this off-season is gonna be very, very interesting for the Fever because as we know, windows in the WNBA are getting 34:53 shorter and shorter with all of the things that are happening. Um, but I also do wanna say shout out to Caitlin and Aliyah Boston who played real well- I was, that was gonna be the next thing 'cause man... 35:04 in their second ever playoff game. Yeah. They, they do what they're supposed to do. Like, they, they came here to do what they're supposed to do. They're here to do what they do. Tonight they were both awesome. Yeah. 35:14 They're built different. But- Yeah. They're, like, they're here. Like, they're... It's time for everyone else around them to catch up to them- Mm... at this point. Um, yeah. 35:22 I, I'll, I'll be very interested in seeing what the f- like, what the off-season looks like for Indiana. Um, I mean, you gotta get a four. 35:30 Like, that's, like, that, that feels an- Alyssa Smith, you are a Golden State Warrior. Yeah, welcome. Well, yeah. Really. I mean- She in the Bay... DG Nay was tweeting after the game, "Free her." So that's gone. 35:41 Free her. Right. Um, I don't know. I- The only thing that sucks about this is that it feels like there's gonna be a shady, a lot of shady shit she- said in the exit. And I hope that's not- There's... I don't... 35:51 I don't think so... I hope that's not the case, but it feels like it's gonna trend that way, especially if they decide to part with her. Um- I will be, I will be there no matter what. I will be here for you. 36:01 But no, they need a, they need a four. Yeah. And, and it's not a super forward heavy draft coming up. Mm-hmm. So you will probably have to build in free agency here. 36:11 Um- I don't think that they should even be looking at young players. I don't. I, I think i- if they- I don't think so... I'll tell you right now, I, if I could get anyone, I'm calling LA up. 36:20 "Hey, y'all trying to rebuild for real? What, what, what's the asking price for Diarra Hamdi?" That's, that's, like, the dream. That's not actually a bad option. The dream pickup for me. Like, that is... 36:31 That, like, might not be, like, completely im- impossible. Like-Hamby feels like, I, that I feel like the perfect fit across the board You know, do you know who my, uh, you know who my pick is? 36:42 'Cause there, there's, there are good forwards, assuming like a couple of these contracts aren't restructured and immediately resigned. Mm. There are some good forwards on the market, uh, this year. 36:53 The one that I am particularly interested in, especially with Erica Wheeler coming off the books, Satou Sabally. I could get behind it. She feels, she feels like that- I could-... she could be a third. I could, yeah. 37:08 You know? Absolutely. Um, but, you know- I could get behind it... 37:11 there are, uh, there, there are a bunch of other contracts that are coming up, uh, here like, uh, Izzy Harrison, Mercedes Russell, Hines Allen, Shyanne Parker-Tyus. [laughs] Up at the top of... 37:24 Up at the, well, I, I, I went from, I went from lowest up, okay? 'Cause I, again- [laughs] I'm not, I'm not- Right at like the middle, please. 37:32 [laughs] I'm not gonna s- I'm not gonna sit here and say like, "Oh, like, Alyssa Thomas is a free agent." Yeah. That's entirely possible either. Yeah, yeah. 37:38 Um, but like the top of the list there f- in, in terms of AAV is like AT, Stewie, Necka, like, you know. Sabally I think is the, is the higher end of the attainable ones that you have. That, that sounds right, yeah. 37:52 That, that sounds- In this, in that grouping. Mm-hmm. So I, you know, and I'm- Natasha Howard is leaving. This is- No. This is... [laughs] I don't like it. No. Look. No. 38:03 I mean- I watched, I watched the Sabrina Liberty- Yeah... Natasha Howard experiment. It didn't work. It won't work there. [laughs] That's like just simply put. I think she played for Indiana before, if I'm not mistaken. 38:13 She's been on that team before. Was that? I think she's, I think she used to be an Indiana Fever. Tash Howard? I think she was, yeah. Before she went to Seattle, I think that's what team she was on. I think so. Yeah. 38:24 But yeah. I, I, I mean, obviously like this, this off-season, I, I mean, I, I don't... It feels like this could be the one where like, the, the, the ability to jump 38:38 in, in the standings and everything has come way sooner than I think anyone had anticipated, frankly. Agreed. So I, I think there's just decisions to be made is, is, is Kristi Sides who you're running with? 38:47 Like, is, like what do y'all think? Is, is Kris- do y'all... Are, are y'all rocking with Kristi going forward for this? I think it's... Man, I don't know. I have a zag. 38:56 'Cause it, it's a precarious situation right now, right? You just saw how the sparks that really occurred, you know, or- Mm... we should've parted ways with Kurt. 39:04 So every, like the pressure is just different, different than it ever has been in the W. Yes. So, um, I mean honestly, it's getting Caitlin and Aaliyah in a room and saying, "What do you guys think?" Yeah. It just is. 39:21 It just is. Um, what do you guys think? And also them, them, uh, developing some more chemistry during the off-season so that, that they can truly hit the ground running next year. Yeah. Yeah. 39:33 And I, and I do- Which is terrifying. [laughs] I am interested in seeing what Caitlin Clark with an entire off-season and not playing overseas basketball ends up looking like. With a, with a good night's rest looks like. 39:44 [laughs] We didn't need to ask her that in the post game, but you know, c'est la vie. Um, we'll talk about that a little later. Mm. My zag is I, I, I'm riding with Sides. Mm. Yeah. 39:57 I don't think that that's- The reason-... that's the worst thing right now... well, this comes from a place of realism. Mm-hmm. Lin Dunn loves her. She's not parting with her. 40:05 Like even at the beginning of the year, man, you would see the stuff that Lin would retweet like- Oh yeah, rocking with her... coach needs time. You need to be patient. Like she very clearly believes in Sides as a coach. 40:18 Um, and you know, it's worth noting, like Lin has been a head coach herself, like she is, you know, while she is the GM, like she is someone that clearly is trying to help Kristi Sides get used to being a coach. Mm. 40:34 And I do think like, look, she got exposed in the playoffs. It's her first playoff series. Stephanie White's a great coach, man. Like if Cheryl Reeve- Mm... 40:44 didn't do what she did this year, Stephanie White is, you know, she was second on my Coach of the Year ballot. The worst keeping a secret last year. Not for anybody else but our own individual awards. 40:53 But I, I do think that Sides needs time to grow and develop, and look- Mm... nobody, Becky Hammond, Brondello, nobody, nobody has had to deal with this. 41:08 Like what we got this year, Sides even said it in the post game like... 41:12 And it's not just like the Caitlin phenomenon, it's all of the things that have come along with Caitlin that aren't even necessarily about Caitlin, which we'll talk about too. Like- Mm... 41:23 she had to deal with all these things and do all these things, and now you have a year of that, and you can figure out how to handle it better come next year. 41:32 Um, so yeah, man, I don't see why you wouldn't ride with Sides at least another year. Mm. At least one more year. Maybe she's Doug Collins. 41:40 You know, maybe she's Paul Westhead, and Pat Riley and Phil Jackson are sitting out there waiting, like that is entirely possible. You know, like Bill Laimbeer to Becky Hammond. Like we've- Mm-hmm... 41:50 seen it in this league before. At the same time, I wouldn't pull the plug after one year when you're a sixth seed, when people thought you'd be an eighth. Yeah. Um, I'm with you. 42:01 Um, any other thoughts from the game itself on the court before we, we move on to off the court? I think that about sums it up. I mean, I... The Sun and the Seattle- You know what, you know what the last thing I have is? 42:15 I- It is insane to me that Marina went three of 10 from three, and like her three threes were all- It, it, dude, they felt-... were all like consecutive... felt meta... like. 42:23 Dude, you would've thought they were like worth 10 points. Literally. [laughs] It was crazy. Yeah. 42:29 It, it's like you have a group of introverts that do the project, and then you have the one extrovert that does no work- Resists it. [laughs]... that shows up with like 18 and fucking crushes it. 42:38 Like that was Marina in that game, but you know what? That's what they needed her forYou just need another body to hit big shots and get their own shot What'd you need to do? 42:48 And they caught Caitlin on a rotation and Marina ripped one right in her face. There. Nailed it. And that was the dagger. Also- She did her own version of the HBO. Yeah. Yeah. That's poetic for real. Yeah. 42:59 You know, you know what my other dame thought is before we go onto the- Yeah... the off the court stuff and get a little serious? Ryan Ruocco's you bet- Fire... fire Fire... 43:09 it's, it's starting to go up my, uh, my rankings of- Mm-hmm... of, like, basket/touchdown calls. Like- Yeah... 43:17 you bet is a gr- like, that and, and it, like, it's not bang quite yet, but I could see in 15 years you bet being a ubiquitous the way Mike Breen's, like, bang is at the same time. 43:30 'Cause, like, even in college when, when he's like, "You bet," and you're on the other side of that shit, bro, that's so demoralizing. 43:38 [laughs] Like, I, I'll be honest, like from a story perspective, like, I, I was rooting for Caitlin in the, in the NCAA championship last year just 'cause I, I, I love the story. 43:46 Like, I am a narratives guy and, and I felt that the narrative of, like, her basically doing a Sheryl Swoopes redux almost 30 years later exactly w- would've been a pretty cool story. 43:57 But, you know, we end up in this situation where, like, "Tess Johnson, you bet." I'm like, "Oh." [laughs] It's over. Oh, the, the, his, his no is even better. Never sleep. No. No. No. [laughs] Oh, Ruocco. Yeah. 44:15 Love you, buddy. No, but, um, I'm, I'm with you on that. I like, I like the you bet. Uh, Greer, what did, do you have a, a closing point on the, the on the court aspect of this? 44:24 Uh, I mean, I think two things of concern for Connecticut just looking ahead is- Yeah... Bri Jones and Tyires. Yes. Good point. Yeah. Yep. Because Minnesota is a pretty deep team too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 44:37 Uh, and so that just changes the complexity of, of Connecticut if they're not 100% and ready to go. Um, the series kicks off on Sunday, so they got some days to- Mm-hmm... 44:48 get through rehab and, and try to get them into, you know, ready to be key contributors again. But I think that's just something to, to monitor. Yeah, 100%. It did kinda... 44:58 Like, I don't know, it might've just been gamesmanship to be honest. Like, the talk was, like, surrounding Ty. Like, it was kinda gonna kinda be day to day-ish, kinda game time decision-y. 45:08 Um, but I, I kind of am leaning more towards, like, that was a little bit of gamesmanship to be honest. So we'll b- we'll just have to see. 45:14 That's a great point 'cause Minnesota absolutely has the dep- and is healthy, like, across the board. Like, they're, they're pretty much good to go. 45:21 Um, pivoting off the court, um, from this game, uh, I'll, I'll start off with the statement that the WNBA, uh, put out. I have that here. Let me pull it up. 45:32 Um, the WNBA is a competitive league with some of the most elite athletes in the world. 45:37 While we welcome a growing fan base, the WNBA will not tolerate racist, derogatory, or threatening comments made about players, teams, and anyone associate- or affiliated with the league. 45:45 League security is actively monitoring threat related activity and will work directly with teams and arenas to take appropriate measures to include involving law enforcement as necessary. Obviously this has 46:00 been a, the, the topic of so many conversations across this season, um, especially specifically revolving around the Indiana Fever. Uh, this statement comes out right after they're eliminated, like, literally. 46:13 [laughs] Like right after, right after the game. Um, a lot of people saying, "Where has this been?" Uh, a, a lot of kind of differing reactions to it. Um, 46:23 I mean, this is where we're at right now, [laughs] like, within the W space, uh, is, is dealing with these things. Um, and like I say- Can you pull up that last comment please? Yeah. This one right here? Oh, God. 46:37 I'm so j- I'm so jealous of you. I wish. [laughs] What a, what a calm life you must lead, Magnolia. Man. No wonder you're obvious a flower. Yeah. 46:45 You must just be- [laughs] Life must be- I haven't, I haven't seen one of those in weeks... quite sweet. [laughs] Oh, can you imagine that? Um- That's incredible... but yeah. I mean, I guess just 46:55 open floor aspect here, like, kind of h- however you guys wanna, wanna take this. We saw the post game comments as well from, uh, Alyssa Thomas. 47:03 Um, I can, I can pull those, those quotes up as well just to reference them properly. Um- Greer, you wanna start while he looks for the one again? Yeah. I mean, um, I'm kind of with Magnolia. Like, 47:15 listen, man, I, I'm a Black woman living in America, um, and I, I have a little bit of privilege, but I also have a lot of power and control over my own life and what I wanna consume, what I don't wanna consume. 47:30 And, uh, we know literacy overall is down in this country. Media literacy, internet, like, all of it, w- we just need to readjust what we give attention. And, um, 47:48 I think Stephanie White absolutely hit the nail on the head with her comments post game today about the media's responsibility in all of this. Mm-hmm. Um, I think we're- I have, I have the- Yeah. Yeah. 47:59 I, I think I have the words... 48:01 community to be a lot more, um, uh, selective about who they credential for these kinds of events and, and games and stuff like that, as well as teams, 'cause WNBA doesn't handle all of them, but- Mm-hmm... um, yeah. 48:17 I just think, like Stephanie White said, it's a microcosm of the larger problems in our country and our society and, you know, it's super easy to make Black women who are gay the target of all of this vitriol. 48:32 You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Like, um, but also, like, everybody's gotta take a little bit of personal responsibility. You know when you, you're egging it on. 48:44 You know when you're engaging or in, uh, engagement baiting kinda, right? Um, and I, I wish everybody could just be honest about-How they've behaved this year. 48:56 Like, um, you're j- there's like just some people's work you'll, you'll never see me engaging or retweeting, even if it's to be like, "Shame on you." Why would I amplify that at all? Yeah. That's kind of how I- I agree. 49:12 Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. Um, I do... Andrew, before- Yes... I, I just saw something as well on Twitter. Um, Alyssa Smith just tweeted, and- Mm. Oh... and said, uh... So for... 49:23 Here, let me, let me just share screen real quick. It'll be easiest. Oh, okay. Um, so- Reaction fly... 49:28 during, during the playoff series, we saw this, uh, where she sent, uh, Dijonai Carrington, her girlfriend, flowers during the series, and she said, "Anyways, now that I can respond freely, my girlfriend has been getting death threats, followed, called all type of shit. 49:42 So sending her flowers to make sure her mental health is okay, then cool, cry about it." But obviously, the highlight there really is death threats, followed, all of that. Um, just another kinda added layer 49:55 to all of this, frankly. Um, and then- And that was great. Yeah. The players deserve to feel safe in their workplace, let me say that. Yeah. I, I do wanna be very clear about that. 50:05 Players deserve to be f- just like anybody, deserve to feel safe in their workplace. Um- Yeah... the teams, the WNBA, like they just... 50:15 There's just a lot of work that needs to be done in between now and the next season about, um, like crisis management, uh- [laughs] That's an understatement... like all of that kind of shit. 50:26 Y- you know, like in the CBA- Mm-hmm... if there's gonna be more security built in for teams like that. Like right now, it seems like there's like one security person for each team. 50:36 Uh, there probably needs to be more similar to what the NBA teams have, right? Yeah. 50:42 Um, so yeah, the WNBA's definitely gotta be better about, uh, fostering a safe work environment and, and the franchises have gotta be better about fostering a safe work environment for the players, but like no one 50:57 is entitled to be on social media. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Uh, I, w- a- and if you want, just real quick to, to give the context of the, the post-game quotes as well from, from Stephanie and AT. 51:09 Um, you mentioned the Stephanie quote, and just a, a piece of that is, "We in the media," 'cause she does work, uh, on, on TV stuff. 51:15 Uh, "We in the media have to do a better job of not allowing trolls and social media to become the story. 51:19 I feel like we have allowed trolls and social media to frame the narrative of what the story is, and it's unacceptable." 51:24 So to your point, Greer, of kinda f- putting gas on the fire in, in ways by providing the attention. And then I think, uh, Alyssa Thomas also, uh, was, was strong in her comments. I have that as well. I can share that. 51:39 Um, really, uh, the... read the quote there, but the gist of it is the Indiana Fever fan base has, you know... A- and that's a very broad generalization. And again, is it even the Indiana Fever fan base? 51:53 That, that's another piece. 51:53 And, and I think that is, that is another part where we saw, like for example, Caitlin Clark likes the Taylor Swift post, and we see kind of the turnaround of some of the fans in the comments there. 52:01 So like it's, it's a very, uh, broad kinda generalization of the Fever fan base is there's a lot of kinda factors and variables that play into that. But I, I think the biggest part here is, you know, we don't... 52:16 Basketball is headed in a great direction, but we don't want fans that are going to degrade us and call us racial things. We already see what's happening in the world and what we have to deal with in that aspect. 52:23 We come to play basketball for our job. It's fun, but we don't want to go to work every day and have social media blown up over things like that. 52:30 It's uncalled for, and something needs to be done, whether it's the team checking their fans or the league. There's no time for it anymore. Um, I think to my understanding, that's pretty much the- Mm-hmm... 52:40 the, the large majority of the context, uh, kinda going into this conversation between those two quotes and the WNBA statement. Uh, Andrew, th- floor is yours. If I run long, just cut me off. Okay. Noted. 52:56 [laughs] There is a lot of blame to go around here. Um, and, and I don't say blame in like a finger pointy, like talking at the individuals, right? 53:07 Um, because when we talk about the complexity of this league from its politics to its demographics to its makeup, you, 53:21 you cannot talk about the league and the coverage and the things around it in such a diametric or a, a, to have, to have such a dichotomy, I guess, in, in speaking about it. 53:33 The first component to Stephanie White's point is... 53:38 And this is one of the reasons we started No Cap Space, it's one of the reasons we love what we do, is that, you know, we are beholden to subscribers, and we don't have to live in the SEO machine. 53:50 There's plenty of people on social media, there's plenty of people in positions where they're in the chair on networks, um, that applies to First Take, that applies to pre and post-game shows, that applies to CBS HQ, that applies to NBC Sports, that... 54:04 Everywhere. 54:06 Everyone is beholden to the click machine, and I've been really frustrated as a person that is full-time in this business and media, watching my colleagues talk about how terrible all of this dialogue is while simultaneously feeding the beast, and I understand that we all have jobs. 54:27 I understand that we all have a role to play. We all have a face we wear in the workplace, and we have a face we wear elsewhere, right? 54:36 If you know that and you have a self-awareness of what your role in the ecosystem is, shut the fuck up. Point-blank, period. Shut the fuck up because 54:49 you do not help anybody by going on Twitter and c-Talking about how terrible all of the different media points and talking points and rundown choices and producer choices and discussions are 55:05 when you yourself engage in the same behavior. That is nonsense. Either own and understand what your role is and the moral compromises that you are making for a check, or walk off your job. Straight up. 55:22 Because your morality and your ethics cannot be selective here. 55:26 If you are someone that truly stands against feeding this machine that leads to this vitriol and this misogyny and this racism, you should not, if your ethics are straight up and down, be contributing to that because it pays you the check. 55:44 That is the exact thing that you are going after Caitlin Clark for, of making a moral compromise because there is money to be made. And I understand that is the system that we all live in. 55:59 Like, this is capitalism, baby, and we all are playing a role. Like, call it what it is in this way and this respect. 56:07 But what has bothered me about the media component of this year is people acting like they do not have a choice. 56:14 You do have a choice, and we have seen multiple times over the years that deplatforming and not giving credence to viewpoints works. Don't believe me? 56:26 Remember how big Milo Yiannopoulos was in the political sphere about eight years ago? Milo is now the lackey manager for Kanye West, and by the way, where the fuck is Kanye now? [laughs] Deplatforming works. 56:40 Off a lot of cats, allegedly. Yeah, exactly. He's on the moon. Do you have the nitrous? But, like, deplatforming these things work. 56:48 If you don't give them smoke, they don't control the, the apparatus and they don't control the discussion. And this is where I'll get to the W's piece. The W has to be a little more judicious 57:02 of how they hand out credentials, because if you are a league that is- You gotta be doing your own product. For the exa-- for all of it. They've been passive this entire season. Entire time. 57:15 It's, it's to our point that we've always made about the W, from its media to its league, it is a reactive operation. 57:23 Tonight's situation was a reactive situation, a reaction not to the racism that we've seen levied at Black women in this league, but because a fan yelled at Caitlin Clark, which makes that shit look even worse. Yeah. 57:39 Also, it took you 30 minutes to write this fucking statement, but you allowed your commissioner to go on CNBC and basically say the direct opposite of this statement. Turn it up. 57:50 Can you imagine how good this would've looked if this was the statement you chose to read off- Turn it up... on CNBC instead of being where we are now? Mm-hmm. It is reactive choices. 58:03 Everything we do in media from the W side is reactive. It's all done in reaction. There is no proactivity in how we're discussing A'ja Wilson because we're reacting to 1,000 points. We're reacting to the lack of a shoe. 58:19 We're reacting to all of these other things that she does instead of proactively putting you on game and talking about it before it occurs. Outkick should not have a credential. 58:29 The dude, whoever they were, that was cheering on press row at the Aces game last year, that Jiggy had to go out as the communications person for that franchise and put out a press release that says, "If you are credentialed in media, you cannot cheer on press row," that person should have their credential revoked. 58:47 And I'll, and I'll tell you, I've, I've seen this happening at, covering games, credentials. 58:52 I've, I've seen it [laughs] like- If you are-- Look, if you are in pressers repeatedly calling players the wrong names or mispronouncing their names, you should not have a credential. 59:04 This shit does not fly in big leagues, and the WNBA needs to be more judicious about how it hands out credentials. The attention is here. You do not have to beg anymore. 59:16 So this is a failing of the W for not understanding what was going to come along here, and they were slow to react as they have been. 59:25 But it is extremely revealing and extremely insulting that this statement only comes out because a fan yelled at Caitlin on the floor. 59:33 Not only that, these arenas and, on top of it, these owners, the event staff, the GMs, you guys are in these arenas every night, man. 59:44 Like, I know that people have called within the arenas about people that they think are saying the wrong thing or doing the wrong thing. Those calls make it up to event ownership. Like, that is the way this stuff works. 59:59 And so that is the problem to me with each individual franchise that they own. The issue with those people is that you have probably heard of an uptick of complaints in your arena, and you have done nothing about it. 1:00:12 Get more ushers. Hire more security. Be more hard-ass about getting people the hell out of the arena if they are being called in as having done something wrong. The fans need to call that stuff in. 1:00:25 It's not just, like, if the people around you are, uh, co-signing on that behavior. 1:00:29 I saw, uh, a s- someone on, uh, Reddit share their experience about this and said they were at a Mercury game and, you know, there was a Fever fan, or what they interpreted as a, as a Caitlin Clark fan who was there for Caitlin Clark, I guess you could say, behind them saying all sorts of nasty, you know, shit about Brittney Griner, and they called event staff, and event staff came over, and the dude shut up for the rest of the game. 1:00:50 And, and this poster said that they were upset about the fact that people around them were kinda, like, laughing and co-signing on it, but you know what happened when they called event staff? 1:01:00 That dude stopped for the rest of the game.That is the policy that needs to be had going forward. You know, racist shit comes into the stadium, you call it, get them the fuck out. 1:01:09 These are not the type of fans that we want in here. And, and this is gonna be the last two. I appreciate you letting me run long here. [laughs] We have to draw a delineation between Feer fans and Caitlin Clark fans. 1:01:22 There is a years-long psychological study about why this person in particular seems to charge up folks on that side of the aisle so significantly when we have had other white apolitical, great white hope types in this league before. 1:01:35 Um, and they have come from places that aren't necessarily super progressive in that way, like the, the universities they've come from, mind you. 1:01:46 And so I, I think it is interesting that this girl has been the one to bring fans out, not just in this way, but in, in, with this energy, you know? 1:02:01 'Cause, like, typically if you court that, you get it, right? Mm-hmm. And like these fans didn't come out like this on the politics alone for Sophie Cunningham, you know? 1:02:10 Like this-- like there, there's something weird at play with just like the sociology of the country here that I think is really fascinating. 1:02:18 Um- Could it be, could it be like bots and shit like that, like what we've been saying all season long, that a lot of these people are not real people too? 1:02:25 I think that's amplified, but I mean, we saw-- But, but in fairness, we saw and heard experiences tonight that would indicate that those people did exi- that those people are there. 1:02:34 I do agree with you that I think it's much more amplified because the, you know, the way the, the media machine, you know, over there on the right works. 1:02:41 Um, but I also think, again, we are taking entirely too much time dedicating our lives and our discourse to letting them run the discourse. You know what I mean? 1:02:54 There is no fucking reason an outkick story from a reporter that just showed up should spur first take- I'm not doing that on both sides or like at all... Yeah. 1:03:04 Like, dude, there's no, there's absolutely zero reason for that to move the needle on everything else. Like political me- like we've done this in political media before where like some... 1:03:17 like back in '16 we saw this a lot. 1:03:19 Like something would originate on Fox and then it would end up, or typically would like originate on like OAN, and then it would get to Fox, and then it would get to the big three, and now, you know, the Sunday shows are talking about it with their, with their politician guests. 1:03:32 Like the same thing happened this year, where like outkick shit and like stuff that's way the hell out there that we don't even need to fucking give any credence to because they're not rational, good faith actors are the ones that are powering the entire discussion cycle about this. 1:03:48 Like we have the power to ignore some of this shit, and I do think- I wish more people would recognize that. That's like my big bone to pick is like you- we're feeding right into the bullshit. Mm-hmm. 1:04:01 And it, and it's clear as day if you just use both eyes. Yes. And that's my final piece. I think the players have played into this stuff some. And, and look, white guy in a place of privilege, right? 1:04:13 Like I am not going to even sit here and pretend to imagine what it is like to receive a death threat that's laden with N words if you are a Black woman in this league. 1:04:23 I'm not even gonna try and, and understand like the depth of hurt that that must feel like and how unsafe you must feel if you get that over and over and over and over again. 1:04:34 But to me, it feels like a lot of the energy in reaction to that is misplaced because it's pushed towards this kid. And sh- I, I don't wanna use kid pejoratively. She's a 22-year-old woman. She's an adult. 1:04:46 She can vote, she can drink, she can make her own choices. But to me, I think her coming out and saying something as evidenced, Tyler, the way you said by the Taylor Swift thing, shows that her words don't really travel. 1:05:00 Like she represents something that is beyond herself. In a, in a sad way, her agency's been taken completely out of this. 1:05:07 She is an avatar for grievance at this point, which is why I think the, the decision to place it all on her is misguided by the players because the people you need to guide it towards is the league. Yeah. 1:05:21 That stuff needs to go to the league office. 1:05:23 And it's crazy to me, and this is the one piece of smoke I do have for the players on this, Nneka Ogwumike in Seattle's exit interviews today said that she is having trouble getting every player in the WNBPA 1:05:39 together to be able to vote to opt out of the current CBA like they are allowed to. Think about that. 1:05:47 You are facing a massive financial windfall as a league, the opportunity to get paid what you finally deserve, and the president of the players association is coming out on record saying, "I'm having trouble getting people to want to buy in to negotiate for their own betterment." 1:06:08 Right. That's a, that is revealing. And in the case of this stuff 1:06:14 is further revealing because there's all of this smoke for Caitlin Clark, but when you are needed as players to collectively get together to do something about this, we are in our own fiefdoms fighting. 1:06:31 And the reality should be if this, you know, if you wanna live up to the activist league moniker, the smoke you have is for the league not protecting you, for your owners not protecting you. 1:06:43 Not for the kid, but for the millionaires and billionaires that own your teams, that are skimping out on security, that are skimping out on s- on, on, uh, event staff, that aren't- Sounds-... 1:06:53 taking their concerns seriously. Sounds eerily familiar to like voter registration and voter turnout in this country. Yeah. Like- It's very similar... sports is not unique in that way. You know what I mean? 1:07:06 Like they're more visible sure than lots of other people in this, but-Yeah. It, it- And, and, and just to wrap- Also sounds very familiar... yeah, it is. It is. It's, it's, it's a microcosm. Sports is a microcosm. 1:07:18 It always has been. That's why when people say sports isn't political, like, no, the game is an escape, but the sport is political. Mm. But as I, as I wrap here, what I will say is this. 1:07:32 This league has shown that collective action is what makes a difference, and the smoke that you should have should never be la- lateral or downward when you are trying to upend structures that are inherently oppressive. 1:07:46 The way you defeat oppressive institutional structures of power is by banding together and showing your power as a collective, not as an individual. 1:07:58 And so for them to be attacking laterally, to me feels like the great miss of the year on their end. 1:08:08 Because at some point they all could have realized the enemy here in, in this sense, the people not protecting us are above us, and that's where the fight is supposed to be and supposed to come. 1:08:21 And instead, we are now sitting here, and have been sitting here for five and a half months talking about how one kid should... One woman, excuse me, should be answered for people that don't even see her personhood. 1:08:38 That to me is the great problem with all this. The WNBA has been slow, but unfortunately the collective of the players have been slower. 1:08:48 And that to me is what is a little bit worrisome about the future of what this league holds. Because they are content, as, as Draya Carter said on SportsCenter tonight, 1:09:00 the quote was, "We are fine growing slower if it means we keep these people out of the league." [laughs] That's not what you do. 1:09:08 The way you win is as a collective to say, "No, you do this our way," because we are the majority of the 144, and that includes Caitlin Clark, and that includes Sabrina Ionescu, and Stewie, and Paige, and Cam, and everybody else. 1:09:24 And it is their option to decide what degrees of advocacy they're going to take, whether it is just, what I would argue is aesthetic and verbal, the way it w- it is for Paige and Cam, whether it is through legitimate action as we s- as we have seen through someone like Breanna Stewart, or if it is just by not platforming the noise at all, the way it does for Caitlin and Sabrina. 1:09:47 And the sooner everyone realizes that they are on that team and that the people that you need to push against are the ones that have the money to invest in you and your safety, the easier that we will be. Yeah. 1:10:02 [laughs] Yeah. I, I mean, I, I- I will, I will respond to this real quick. Yeah, go ahead. So yes, this is true. Like there, there are levels to, to the level, I guess you could say. 1:10:16 And I, and I think- Like tiers with, with like, um- Yes. Like I think, I think your point is well taken, but I, I believe, Magnolia, to, to this point, all of them are employees. Like if... 1:10:30 And, and I'm taking this from kind of like a purely capitalistic train of thought, like they are the labor. They are not the management, they are not the ownership, they all represent labor in this scenario. 1:10:41 Now there are stratifications to the labor where, you know, various people enjoy differing degrees of privilege, and those things shift pretty constantly. 1:10:51 Like I, you know, not to go too off the wheel here, but like, you know, I, I talk about this, and Tyler, I know you- we've talked about this, like we're Italian Americans in this country. 1:11:00 Like there was a period where we were lower on the rung than- Yeah... 1:11:04 white Anglos that existed within this country first, and the proximity to whiteness allowed Italian Americans to climb over people when the reality was Italian Americans should have been allying with people of color because the treatment was more similar, and that would've upended the structure, but they cozied up to whiteness, and that's how we got where we were. 1:11:23 Within this situation, all the labor is the same, but the strata are different, and so the labor needs to collectively get together and say that the problem is not infighting within the labor. 1:11:33 The problem is in management and ownership, and that's- Yeah... that's where I would say that similarity kinda starts. Yeah. I mean- Tyler, like let me fucking out. Five months. Yeah. I, I'm, I'm tired, bro. 1:11:49 It's kind of what we do here, right? Like no shade. Right? I'm, I'm, me and Shaunie are the... Y'all do a lot of the heavy lifting for us- [laughs]... and that is how they should be using Caitlin. Mm-hmm. I agree. 1:12:02 Like, and, and, you know, that's, that's something too though that we, we talk about with like Paige and Cam, 'cause I, I, you know, I, I hate to like address every little piece of criticism, but like I did see something that, that, you know, said in one of our recent columns that like it's, it's accusing Paige and Cam of, of performative activism. 1:12:19 And it's not performative activism, but at the same time like action speaks louder than words, and sometimes action isn't in something that you see. 1:12:28 And we, we put, we give pats on the head, at least in my opinion, I think we give pats on the head to white people too much for just saying the right thing. And, and I'm someone that rejects the term allyship outright. 1:12:41 I do not think you deserve a title or a distinguishment for doing literally the- Mm-hmm... moral and ethically correct thing- Mm-hmm... of taking care of your people, you know? 1:12:51 Regardless of creed, color, sexuality, whatever. Like th- more, you need to be just a good ass person. You should not get a pat on the head because you say the right things. 1:13:03 And, and that to me I think is where we've lost the plot on Caitlin is like she needs to say the right things to say, "Well, if she does the right things, then w- how do we move from there?" 1:13:14 Now we gotta figure out what right things she does, and that's a whole other discussion that we'll probably get to come the off-season. 1:13:21 But-I guess my final thought, man, is, uh, you know, these conversations aren't gonna end, but I do hope that as, as we get further away from this the culture war that took a break from Caitlin Clark, mind you, to attack Iman Khalif, uh, and, you know, the Algerian boxer during the Olympics- Mm-hmm... 1:13:41 that shows you that none of this shit is about a person. This stuff is all about causes and amplification of bad faith arguments, which also helps the grifters keep making a little bit of money. 1:13:53 And so I'm curious to see if they come back around and latch back on, or if by this time next year we've found something else. I hope to God it's the latter, 'cause I do not wanna do this again next year. Yeah. 1:14:04 I'm, I'm tired. [laughs] I'm, I'm tired, man. This, the, the- we've, we've been doing this for two ye- two, three, two and a half years now. Like [laughs] okay? 1:14:16 Like it's, it, I mean, it's, it's- Yeah, it's lip service when it comes to online- Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's, it's exhausting. Um, yeah, I mean, going forward for the rest of this season, presumably 1:14:32 we'll be talking on court and, but it's also very important to be able to have these types of con- I'm sorry. I think- Go for it. The phone? Zanger scene, Zanger scene. I still think- Mm, which? 1:14:45 Like you still have to just meet people where they are in life. She's 22 out of the state of Iowa for the very first time, for real. 1:14:55 Like, truly around people from all different walks of life, all age groups, all backgrounds, all... Like, we also gotta give her a little bit of time. 1:15:03 I'm not even saying grace, but just give her a little time to get some life experience. Like, sh- she's still... Look, we all are. We all still- but especially a 22-year-old. Facts. 1:15:15 If you're, if you're waiting on a 22-year-old to be, like, your avatar for equality and fairness and shit like that, you're gonna be waiting till you're bald in the face, baby. I don't know what to tell you. 1:15:29 Well, and look, my, my only thing is this, man. We've had a lot of milkshake ducks in the last, like, six to eight years. You feel me? 1:15:37 Like, we've had too many milkshake ducks where, like, I, I don't trust words in the same way from, uh, from my folk anymore, 'cause I know that some old tweets are always right around the corner. 1:15:51 [laughs] The dreaded Twitter search. And I know they have writers already. Yeah. And they're supposed to do rap lyrics. Uh, they already killing hers. Yeah. I know they, they write hers. 1:16:00 Nothing's more dangerous in this world than a this you. Like [laughs]... 1:16:03 Well, and look, I do, I, I, I think one last interesting piece of this that I think is, is something I want people to think a little bit about, you know, before we go. I hate giving homework, but, you know, whatever. 1:16:14 Something to- Mm-hmm... something while you're being an insomniac like me you'll think about. Mm. Twitter had a very certain ideological bent under Jack Dorsey. 1:16:24 Like, typically a left-leaning, uh, app that was primarily handled by media and people of color, specifically Black Twitter, which is famous at this point, right? 1:16:35 And you're talking about a league with a lot of players that are between the ages of 25 and 32 that are Twitter generation people. 1:16:43 And I do think it is very interesting that this year of all years, we ended up in a scenario where as Twitter makes a decidedly ideological shift with Elon Musk, all of this other stuff starts to come. 1:17:02 And I do think it is an interesting thought exercise of, like, if the Twitter revolt existed, does this play out in the same way or fashion? Yeah. 1:17:11 And I do think that that's something that I can forgive players for not being hip to game on, because, like, how many of them are reading the trades, right? 1:17:19 So, you know, I, I can imagine for someone like a Dijonai Carrington, beyond just, like, the amount of people that are here now, right? 1:17:25 I can definitely imagine an idea where, like, for the most part, like, yeah, like, there have been shittiness on the app before, but it's not this crazy. 1:17:32 And then as Twitter starts to make this turn and gets, like, much more lawless, you start to be on the receiving end of a lot more heinous shit, and it directly coincides not by Caitlin Clark's own making, but it coincides with her entrance to the league. 1:17:46 Mm-hmm. Like, what happens if Caitlin comes two years earlier and the platform's still o- run by Jack? Like, does this play out- I think it's important... you know, in, in a, in a, in a similar way? 1:17:55 It just, th- there, there's just such a crazy ass confluence here, and that's why I hesitate the way some of my other colleagues are to lay this all at Caitlin's feet. Yeah. 1:18:05 That to me is, is I think the, the, the biggest problem. Yeah. I feel you. Sleepy time. 1:18:12 Well, well, I'm, I'm glad and I'm always very, uh, happy that we're able to have nuanced conversations about these things, because I feel like they are very few and far between. 1:18:22 Um, especially, [laughs] you know, in, in this space at times. So, um, but that's what we're here for. That's what we do this for, uh, amongst many other things. So I know- Yeah, baby... um, 1:18:34 hopefully the- Be the, be the content change you wanna see in the world. Yes. Um, but we will be, I mean, rest of the way going forward presumably should be some really good damn basketball. 1:18:44 And th- [laughs] and hopefully, hopefully nothing else. Um, [laughs] we'll, we'll, we'll see. But man, fingers crossed. Uh, 'cause- I promised you guys that Sunday Shani will be here after Vegas and New York. 1:18:58 We're, we're- And yeah... she shows up conveniently as I start wedding week. Unbelievable. [laughs] Oh, that's right. Unbelievable. No. I am phone, I am phone off starting Sunday, buddy. Oh, right. You're right. Mm-hmm. 1:19:11 Oh, man. I believe, Shani, if you've made it an hour 20 into this, into this Live. [laughs] Unless you're like, "Producer Shani, don't watch the content." [laughs] You know what's fu- you know what's so fucked, man? 1:19:22 On Substack, you can see, like, they give a star rating to how people ingest your content. Mm-hmm. And, like, all of us are, like, five star. 1:19:31 Like, anytime something shows up, like, we read our shit when it hits our inbox. Mm-hmm. Shani does, like, a two star. Fake.Yeah. Yeah Yeah He's getting, he's getting added in the chat right now I'm getting... Yeah. 1:19:43 [laughs] He's getting added. He's getting added You're the, the outlet and you're two-starring your content, bro. Come on. He's getting added. Give me a couple more like count. 1:19:50 That's crazy to me He's getting added on, in the chat tonight. Uh, but yeah, we'll be back, uh, for another post game. I don't think we have- David, do we need to be on B-side? Is that what you're telling me? Hmm. 1:20:03 [laughs] I don't need, I don't need another one. I quit. I quit. Is it next week we were there? I don't even have the energy for it There's so, there's so many. Uh, but no, we'll be back Sunday, right? 1:20:11 We'll be, we'll be the, the first game- Sunday... for, for round two, so both of them on Sunday, so we'll have a, a fire double header, uh, on deck. So we'll be here for that. 1:20:21 Um, I know we got a couple interviews lined up that, that are, are in kinda in, in, in the... I don't think they're officially scheduled yet, but they're, they're coming. [laughs] We got some good ones coming. 1:20:33 We got some good ones on deck that are, that are in the works right now that we're all very excited about. So we'll see y'all for sure on Sunday. 1:20:39 Uh, be on the lookout as well on make sure you're tapped in with the Substack, 'cause that is where majority of our content lies is on the Substack with... To make sure you're not missing anything print. 1:20:47 We had a article go up yesterday in regards to Kurt Miller and who might be replacing him in, um, Los Angeles, so be on the lookout for that. Everything- The previews are coming next week Yeah. 1:20:59 They start next week Yeah The previews. It's about that time y'all. And so because it's about that time, I think you should probably go head over to Home Field, use code nocap, get your 15% off and rep your team. 1:21:09 Rep your team. I'm still waiting on my order, but I'll be showing it off since it gets here, so, um, but yeah. Like I said, we're, we're always happy to be able to talk ball, but also do it in, in the right way. 1:21:21 So great night tonight y'all. Thank y'all so much for, for being here. Like, subscribe, hit the bell so you're notified when we go live on Sunday. Like I said, we're gonna be here all throughout the playoffs. 1:21:30 You're not gonna wanna miss it. And only, the hate and the stakes only go up. So y'all know what time it is here in the No Cap space. I, I'm, I'm very excited. But we will see y'all on Sunday. [outro music]
